GUARDLING Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) These corps believe are private organizations so they can do what they want I suppose. I do not see it as discrimination at all. Is PR doing the same not letting males in the guard/ SCV did it for years and flip flopped as i remember. Some winter programs have done it often Many HS programs do it all the time in guards. Could someone fight it in HS programs? sure i guess. PC police will getcha..lol Edited July 13, 2015 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
31rabbit Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 True Nick, but the activity is promoted so much to a newer younger generation- The traditionalist maybe the minority soon enough in terms of the Younger Generation, though, the Cavaliers are among the most popular corps in part Because they are all male. Can't deny that the Cavaliers, even when they are not having a highly competitive year (in terms of Contending to Win, anyways), draw large swaths of enthusiastic teen girl fans. Cavaliers are the Boy Band of DCI. Sure the high-pitch squeals of Cavie groupies may be piercing, but somebody has to hit those notes now that sop soloists don't scream anymore :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AROD24601 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 I wonder, of all the colorguard judges in DCI today, how many are female vs. male? Is it possible that their final guard scores are affected by their own gender, either positively or negatively, towards Cavies/Scouts? I'm sure they are all objective in their approach but the subconscious mind can do interesting things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I began following drum corps in 1975 and we had Kilts, Madison, and Cavies as the all boy and were finalists and a slew of all girl corps, enough for their own division. Kitties made one finals appearance coed in a show that would not have made finals if some of their competitors had not had bad performances. Even Kilties knew this was the case. Some all female corps went coed at the same time. None of them are around today. Going coed killed many of the all boy and all girl corps. Does history repeat itself if Cavies and Madison go coed? Maybe, but maybe not. The corps that went coed in the late 70's/early 80's did so to survive, not due to lack of talent, so we could be comparing apples and oranges. If Madison and Cavies has trouble due to lack of talent, maybe they have to recondiser their all male status. However, I don't think that talent is the issue for either corps the past few years. Some have downplayed tradition. Remember, for some corps, tradition is a huge part of their identity and dtives the corps. Cadets, BAC, Troopers, Madison, and Cavies all see tradition as integral, so for these corps playing around with tradition is a serious matter. In the case of one of the two, perhaps both, look at staff first, and pay less attention to well heeled donors and alums who have good intentions but may be weighing you down a bit, and see of this works. If it doesn't, you may need to consider going coed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I wonder, of all the colorguard judges in DCI today, how many are female vs. male? Is it possible that their final guard scores are affected by their own gender, either positively or negatively, towards Cavies/Scouts? I'm sure they are all objective in their approach but the subconscious mind can do interesting things.[/size] Not too many of the judges have changed since 2011 when Cavies were still highly regarded for design and degree of difficulty, so i don't think anti-all male corps has too much to do with things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I wonder, of all the colorguard judges in DCI today, how many are female vs. male? Is it possible that their final guard scores are affected by their own gender, either positively or negatively, towards Cavies/Scouts? I'm sure they are all objective in their approach but the subconscious mind can do interesting things. most are male. There are those who will fight to the death that the im balance is intentional. As someone very active, teaching and judging over the years, that would be quite false. when reasons given to back up the fact that , not just females, people arent banging doors down for these jobs others feel its nonsense. After all why listen to anyone actually involved..lol There are some great females in the activity and maybe females might be a tad smarter..lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Just a tweek, Brasso. The Garfield Cadets did not restrict girls only to the guard but opened all sections of the corps to females, guard, horn line, and percussion. Several of the DCP posters are female drummers in that corps from that time. Good point, xandandl on the timing. I was not sure that when the Cadets decided to end their gender discrimination policies in the 60's, if they did so with the Guard first, then later the rest of the Corps. I will defer to you here ( you know this Corps better than I ) that when the Cadets decided to fully integrate their Corps, gender wise, they decided to do so in one full swoop, one year. What year did Cadets abandon their female exclusion policies ? I was thinking around 1960 or so. But do you know the year ? Edited July 13, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) It's a solution in search of a problem. It will only happen if either organization is in dire straits. The possibility of not making finals does not equate to dire straits, no matter how much some alumni from a certain corps love to mewl. Based on past threads ... this thread is going to degenerate into a fight between people who think gender-exclusive groups are somehow discriminatory vs. people who look for any excuse to complain about Political Correctness (as if it's an organized movement) ... both of whom are wrong. Both corps will continue to operate as they are and this dumb discussion will resurface every year until a fundamental organizational shift happens. Edited July 13, 2015 by ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splooie99 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Cavaliers inconsistency ( since the MG retirement) AKA the last few years is all about Staff changes. The members are just as talented as they were in the early 2000's or at least darn close to the same level. When you change design staff especially one as talented as Michael Gains, you have a huge challenge in front of you to stay at that level. I believe the corps is getting better design wise and may someday, attain the top dog status again. but, for now, the staff continues to get better working together and improve the integration of all the design elements. Then, we may see them challenge for the top spot again. but for now, they are solid and entertaining as usual. I am not as aware of the Scouts decline, but I am assuming it is staff related as well. Corps with this much history, do not just suddenly become less competitive. Staffing makes a huge difference. Anyway, I do not expect either corps will become Coed any time soon. At least I hope not. Diversity is good. The norm of cores are coed and that's fine for all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) These corps believe are private organizations so they can do what they want I suppose. I do not see it as discrimination at all. Is PR doing the same not letting males in the guard/ No.. what Cavs, Madison are doing is quite different than what Phantom is currently doing. I 'm surprised you asked the question and need an answer as to the difference, as it seems obvious to me, at least. Phantom Regiment has both females and males in their Corps, and has done so for close to half a century. Cavs, Madison routinely exclude Females each and every season from all sections of their Corps, and has routinely done so for half a century. It is a show design choice at the moment for Phantom ti go with an all Female Guard. The presumption has never been.. as far as we know... that Phantom will stay with their recent show design choices of all Female Guards forever. ( or Corps that might have all Male Snare lines, for example ) There IS however the implied expectation that both the Cavs and the Scouts will exclude females IN ALL SECTIONS from now until the end times. THATS the essential differeence here between what Cavs/ Scouts are doing for the last half century, and recent show design choices made in one section of the Corps with Phantom Regiment. Edited July 13, 2015 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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