Madcityscout Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I've often wondered in today's world whether the idea of "all male" would be changed in the near future. Now personally I think that the traditions of both the Cavaliers and Scouts being all men are great. That said, in the world we live in, you could certainly understand the young women out there feeling slighted by the all guy policy. I had numerous female students that had the Cavies or Scouts as their favorites and had wished to have the opportunity to march. I personally hope it stays traditional as long as possible. But, I wouldn't be surprised and necessarily opposed to gender opportunity when and if that ever happens. I'm not sure any lawsuit involving the adding of females to create equality would ever be denied. Perhaps the Scouts having their lineage from Boy Scouts might have a more solid foundation but this is a very interesting topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcityscout Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 The Cavaliers have a lineage from the Boy Scouts as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) . Going coed killed many of the all boy and all girl corps. . Nonsense. Finances not " females " did them in. Ironically, finances that were ineptly run by " males " in these Corps organizations that went under, 95% of the time we might add. Edited July 13, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 While probably true, in the 60's, the vast majority of fans " respected the Cadets long tradition of not allowing females into their Guards as well however.. Some corps had females in their Guards for over a decade too. But the Cadets resisted for well over a decade, and principally for the same " tradition " based reasons you just cited. But then the Cadets decided to do what other Corps had done decades earlier, and decided to drop their All Male Guard requirement. Cadets got all kinds of resistance and heat with that ( its in their chonological notes from their history on their site ) from both their long time fans and older Cadets Alums. Many were absolutely furious when the Cadets first allowed females into their Guards ( MikeD will no doubt confirm this). But soon, people and Alums adjusted to the change in policy, and it no longer was an issue anymore. The fact that the Cadets were ultimately able to cultivate both males and females talent pools certainly did not hurt the Cadets competitively in the future either.... thats for sure. Cadets first added a girl guard in 1969, when the near-by Little Falls Cadets corps folded. Basically their guard moved en masse to Garfield. The corps kept the boys as the honor guard in 1970 though. Yes, there was a lot of 'stuff' from alumni when the girls were added, and even some of the support staff. Those young women put up with a lot of silliness. I was not in Garfield in 1969, but a lot of my friends were. I joined for the 70 season, and a lot of the 1969 gals were still there in 1970. By 1970 is was a 'done deal' so to speak, so there was little if any residual animosity, esp seeing what a great group of gals they were. Newark's Blessed Sacrament Golden Knights added a girl guard after the 1970 season, a lot of them coming from the Coleens indoor guard...a GREAT winter guard of the era. Sadly, 1971 was their swan-song as a competitive corps. St Lucy's Cadets, also from Newark had gone the other way in the 60's...they had a girls guard through the 50's and into the 60's, but turned all boy sometime in the 60's, and remained all-boy until they folded after the 69 season. Garfield opened up all sections of the corps to females sometime in the mid 70's, after my time. I always remember the great Argonne Rebels hornline in 1971 being totally mixed gender, and look at how great they were! . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
How_Will_It_End? Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) To answer the OP question ... Could the Cavies be missing out on_______? I think the biggest thing the Cavies are missing out on is Michael Gaines. Bringing ladies into the equation would change the identity and history of the corps. Member talent is not the problem. Design team changes need to be made. Brass seem to be headed in right direction, percussion always strong. Visually changes need to happen in both show design and guard. As a designer they should see that.,,.the show NEEDS a pre show, like mad world did. It can set the stage maybe help explain concept of the show. The run boy run section would work much better if one individual was picked out and referenced by the singer. Then the boy can run run run when he tells him to run :) Maybe use one individual throughout the show to tie everything together. I think little changes/additions could drastically narrow the focus of the show and help the audience to understand better. (Hopefully I'm safe in assuming a new ending too) Can somebody enlighten me on why Michael Gaines doesn't write for them anymore? and if he's permanently retired from writing for Drum Corps. I mean I imagine the paycheck is pretty good. Only reason I can think is that he doesn't think he can add any more to the activity. Edited July 13, 2015 by How_Will_It_End? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Would you care to cite a few examples of this for us ? The structuring of charter schools in minority neighborhoods is a powerful example; single sex education has been successful here in publicly funded as well as privately funded schools. One has only to look at the Journal of Education, the N.Y. Times Education section, and feature article in the Washington Post and other urban papers for documentation. There are many youth programs which are attempting to develop male leadership amongst the fatherless by providing positive male interfacing and mentoring in commercial, civic, and social environments. Check with your local Rotary as one example doing this good work in the New England area. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Can somebody enlighten me on why Michael Gaines doesn't write for them anymore? and if he's permanently retired from writing for Drum Corps. I mean I imagine the paycheck is pretty good. Only reason I can think is that he doesn't think he can add any more to the activity. He's still active and writes and consults for indoor groups/marching bands. Specifically, he's pretty involved with Aimachi. http://michaelgaines.com/ I'm sure someone closer to the Cavaliers will elaborate better, but I'm thinking the stress of writing for a hyper-competitive touring group with a limited schedule (that probably got in the way of marching band season) wasn't worth it compared to what he's currently doing. The paycheck was probably good, but it's still only one group. The stuff he did is going to be analyzed for years/decades to come. Edited July 13, 2015 by ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) No.. what Cavs, Madison are doing is quite different than what Phantom is currently doing. I 'm surprised you asked the question and need an answer as to the difference, as it seems obvious to me, at least. Phantom Regiment has both females and males in their Corps, and has done so for close to half a century. Cavs, Madison routinely exclude Females each and every season from all sections of their Corps, and has routinely done so for half a century. It is a show design choice at the moment for Phantom ti go with an all Female Guard. The presumption has never been.. as far as we know... that Phantom will stay with their recent show design choices of all Female Guards forever. ( or Corps that might have all Male Snare lines, for example ) There IS however the implied expectation that both the Cavs and the Scouts will exclude females IN ALL SECTIONS from now until the end times. THATS the essential differeence here between what Cavs/ Scouts are doing for the last half century, and recent show design choices made in one section of the Corps with Phantom Regiment. AHHH so what youre saying is selective discrimination.. Got it.lol And also it was not design choice. there were lots of issues with the males the last year out . they may have said it was just for design choice but i had students there , it was far from just design. If the other poster didnt answer you cadets had no females at all until the 1969 guard. There's also no conspiracy to discriminate at all in the activity. has it been a boys club? sure it has over the years. has it been the fault of the boys this has happened , maybe a few but mostly no. But a good conspiracy goes a long way in this activity. Look at some of the others...lmao PR has had males and females for more than 1/2 a century? Maybe i misunderstood that OH you did say in the corps..hmmmm Edited July 13, 2015 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 The structuring of charter schools in minority neighborhoods is a powerful example; single sex education has been successful here in publicly funded as well as privately funded schools. One has only to look at the Journal of Education, the N.Y. Times Education section, and feature article in the Washington Post and other urban papers for documentation. There are many youth programs which are attempting to develop male leadership amongst the fatherless by providing positive male interfacing and mentoring in commercial, civic, and social environments. Check with your local Rotary as one example doing this good work in the New England area. I have heard this also but do not have any data to back it only that i have heard theses types of programs are starting to flourish and have been good not only for participants but the community as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Nonsense. Finances not " females " did them in. Ironically, finances that were ineptly run by " males " in these Corps organizations that went under, 95% of the time we might add. Probably an overstatement on my part, but I know of two all girl corps, one much stronger than the other, that went coed and lost a good number of members who believed each corps lost its identity. Perhaps politics and decision making were the actual factors, but a feeling it was "not the same" was what was said at the time. Ironically, those who continued marching joined coed corps. That being said, we tend to blame poor finances on the demise of too many corps. Not every corps went bankrupt and lack of interest was a huge factor. I'm not sure when Racine Scouts went coed, but I do not believe any of the corps that were single sex in 1977, the last year Kities were all male, exists today. Going coed and merging for that matter, with exception of Crossmen who merged, gave some time, but did not ultimately work. Lack of interest and changing times were also factors. I don't think it's a coincidence that the number of drum corps also decreased as the number and variety of activities for young people increased. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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