NeutralNovice Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Been following for over a decade now but still have trouble understanding the intricacies of design and stuff. The Top 6 were just so amazeballz this year that I would have enjoyed a championship for ANY of them (but moreso for SCV cuz I'm a homer like that lol). Anyway, on to the questions: If the Top 6 were equivalent in performance, execution, and/or talent, how would the shows have placed? Like if they all scored 10s across the board on execution, would the design pretty much separate the champion from the rest? And if so, how would you have placed each corps in terms of design and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbandguy Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 The correct answer is....which of the top 6 is your favorite corps. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeutralNovice Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 I'm just wondering from a judge's standpoint so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I'm just wondering from a judge's standpoint so... The other answer was more right than we know. If execution is equal, it comes down to what design one likes best. What marching style, guard style, musical style, et cetera does the judge favor and enhances the show ( according to the judge). It's guided by the sheets as to what to look for, et cetera, but that's all so subjective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland1 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I would have gone Crown Bluecoats SCV BK BD Cadets I like what i like, and i don't like what i don't like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWonder1911 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I still maintain that history bias is still present in some judges. If Bluecoats and Blue Devils were absolutely equal, if there ever were such a thing. then some judges might give BD the benefit of the doubt over Bluecoats because BD has a more successful history. An example is in baseball. Full count. A pitch would be thrown and it might land just outside and by the corner, and by all accounts of everyone watching on their TV sets, the pitch looked just outside. If the pitch was thrown by your run of the mill pitcher, most of the time that pitch is a ball. You take a pitcher like, say, David Price, Clayton Kershaw, Felix Hernandez, etc. and 9 times out of 10, up goes the umpires hand, strike 3, yer out, while the batter is left shaking his head in disbelief. This is because the umpire knows the pitcher is good and has success, knew the pitcher hit the spot he intended to hit, the ball was hit-able, and the strike zone is indeed mostly subjective, but 9 times out of 10, that all-star pitcher gets the strikeout because he gets the benefit of the doubt. This happens in DCI, whether one believes it or not. Sure there are criteria the judges follow, but like one above said, it's subjective, and the judge will give the benefit of the doubt to one corps over another, if it's very close. I don't see a whole lot of judges giving any two corps the same score in any sub-caption. And given that a baseball pitch is one single event, and an umpire is trained to make the judgement call and has years and years of experience making that call, a DCI judge has 11 minutes of material to mull over and make a judgement call after every show. Scores are incredibly iffy and touchy, and though I do believe that the judges as a whole, for the most part most of the time, get it right by Finals, scores should always be taken with a grain of salt. So when people say that a corps must earn their dues, they're right. Once Blue Knights can follow up a 6th place performance with something even better, they will start to gain respect from the judges who've been there, and start getting a more favorable judgement, if they do indeed earn it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWonder1911 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Double posted Edited August 12, 2015 by BoyWonder1911 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeutralNovice Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 Thanks for the long input BoyWonder1911! Didn't really think of history bias as a factor. Kind of sucks that there is some but there's probably nothing that can be done about it. I just wish I understood the whole judging process more. Seems like grueling work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I still maintain that history bias is still present in some judges. If Bluecoats and Blue Devils were absolutely equal, if there ever were such a thing. then some judges might give BD the benefit of the doubt over Bluecoats because BD has a more successful history. An example is in baseball. Full count. A pitch would be thrown and it might land just outside and by the corner, and by all accounts of everyone watching on their TV sets, the pitch looked just outside. If the pitch was thrown by your run of the mill pitcher, most of the time that pitch is a ball. You take a pitcher like, say, David Price, Clayton Kershaw, Felix Hernandez, etc. and 9 times out of 10, up goes the umpires hand, strike 3, yer out, while the batter is left shaking his head in disbelief. This is because the umpire knows the pitcher is good and has success, knew the pitcher hit the spot he intended to hit, the ball was hit-able, and the strike zone is indeed mostly subjective, but 9 times out of 10, that all-star pitcher gets the strikeout because he gets the benefit of the doubt. This happens in DCI, whether one believes it or not. Sure there are criteria the judges follow, but like one above said, it's subjective, and the judge will give the benefit of the doubt to one corps over another, if it's very close. I don't see a whole lot of judges giving any two corps the same score in any sub-caption. And given that a baseball pitch is one single event, and an umpire is trained to make the judgement call and has years and years of experience making that call, a DCI judge has 11 minutes of material to mull over and make a judgement call after every show. Scores are incredibly iffy and touchy, and though I do believe that the judges as a whole, for the most part most of the time, get it right by Finals, scores should always be taken with a grain of salt. So when people say that a corps must earn their dues, they're right. Once Blue Knights can follow up a 6th place performance with something even better, they will start to gain respect from the judges who've been there, and start getting a more favorable judgement, if they do indeed earn it. I liked your response, BoyWonder. If I may expand slightly, I would even go so far as to say that the subjective nature can be observed on a night-to-night basis. I would be very safe in predicting that if one were to follow a particular home plate umpire, one would find that umpire's interpretation of the strike zone would be slightly different from game to game. Maybe he's ticked off. Maybe he's tired. Maybe he misses the wife and kids. Or maybe he is just simply the tiniest bit "off" that night. Heck, with that little "box" telestrator which all stations now have, one can sometimes see a particular umpire's "strike zone" change from one inning to the next. I guess it's called "imperfection of the human eyesight and interpretation." Sometimes it appears that many want those umpires...or Drum Corps judges, for that matter...to be unthinking, unemotional automatons. That is, however, until that judge is observing THEIR corps. Then the matter seems to change all of a sudden... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I’ll play Blue Devils would have still won. As of late, besides their CI, DCI is pushing the Blue Devils brand and design philosophy. There is a lot of buy-in required to rate Blue Devils top in design because most casual fans or rookies don’t get it. This was very apparent when I took 2 rookies to the ToC show in DeKalb where Blue Devils went on first, they thought that that’s where Blue Devils belonged, in last place, going on first. Both were shocked at the end of the show when I said Blue Devils would most likely win, they just didn’t see it. It’s a fair point, Cadets and Crown looked organized and disciplined to them, like they thought a good marching band should…in their pure, innocent, untainted interpretation of GE they thought the obvious winner was Crown. Crown was coming off a 4th place finish then... the rookies saw the potential in Crown’s show before I did . They said BD didn’t do much, just ran around the field, it was disorganized chaos. I’m guessing many rookies would have the same take and I tend agree, I don’t think 80 people rolling around the ground in 80 different ways has the same GE as 80 people punching you in the face with a company front but DCI sure does so BD wins again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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