BRASSO Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) May I ask why you make a reference to Dan, please? Is that Brasso's name? My ears perk up, that's all. Its just Guardrail, going off the rails again. Edited August 30, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 He's invaded my personal privacy on here without my consent, and as such, he'll be lucky I don't sue him some day for it as a matter of fact. Well, if your name is Dan, may I congratulate your parents on an excellent choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I'm probably too simple in thinking this is just summer marching band, but I can't twist my mind enough to understand how any design can be anything without the kids performing it. It just makes no sense to my simple brain that a beautiful design just jumps off the page by itself without the execution, good or bad, of the kids. Exactly!!!!! I said that over and over in my posts . Its always been that way. Lets go back just a little. You or anyone want to tell me the Great George Z had no influence over outcomes? Bobby Hoffman? we can go on for days with that. Of course there's the antagonists who pick a line or 2 then spin it..thats ok the activity was and is full of them and usually get tossed aside. Bitter .. bitter..table for 1.....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcorpsfan4567 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Lower the amount that GE counts to the main score. Lower the amount that GE counts to the main score. LOWER THE AMOUNT THAT GE COUNTS TO THE MAIN SCORE. I have been saying this for years. In a "youth activity" there is no reason the work of a few designers should outweigh the work of the 150 members on the field, PLUS GE is the most subjective caption, PLUS the GE numbers are usually the most puzzling to the fans because entertaining shows are not necessarily rewarded (NOT a good thing for the growth of the activity). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) I can't twist my mind enough to understand how any design can be anything without the kids performing it. So there is no misunderstanding here, no amount of outstanding adult created Show Design can save a show that has subpar performance execution ( otherwise, the well designed Show Design of this years Mandarins show, would have had them no doubt place higher ). But thats not what we are talking about here. We are talking about the slow erosion of the performer based points to be had on the scoring sheets, with the noticeable corresponding shift to the Adult Created Show Designs points to be had on these newer scoring sheets. And we look at this in the new environment whereby more than half the competitive season now in DCI ( unlike the past )has competitions with some combination of no Percussion judge, no Brass judge, or no Guard judge. These are all predominantly ( or were ) performance execution captions. Notice, that DCI has not cutback on the GE judged captions. General Effect , (while not exclusively), are in fact predominantly Show Design captions. The fact that the Corps have decided this change is not problematic is because it is the ADULTS in these Corps that have agreed that halfazz sized judging panels is somehow an appropriate way to judge shows. I would respectfully, but firmly, disagee with this assessment. I also believe this to be a minority opinion among both fans, marchers, and families that foot the bill too. if we asked parents and MM's if they would prefer a return to the DCI days of a guarantee of full judging panels, my observation is that, the overwhelming majority would be in favor of the return of the guarantee of the full judging panels for ALL DCI summer competitions. Its absence, naturally skews the scores to those Corps that naturally have outstanding adult creators of Show Designs, and better scores and placements naturally are a magnet for higher quality marcher talent pool each year for these select few outsanding adult Show Designers. THIS is what this thread tiopic is all about, imo.... and its a good topic I might add that the OP has initiated for discussion. Edited August 30, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) Lower the amount that GE counts to the main score. Lower the amount that GE counts to the main score. LOWER THE AMOUNT THAT GE COUNTS TO THE MAIN SCORE. I have been saying this for years. In a "youth activity" there is no reason the work of a few designers should outweigh the work of the 150 members on the field, PLUS GE is the most subjective caption, PLUS the GE numbers are usually the most puzzling to the fans because entertaining shows are not necessarily rewarded (NOT a good thing for the growth of the activity). i appreciate your opinion..really do ( see Brasso Thats how adults with a different opinion answer) Define entertaining? I think you can find many versions of that. GE subjective? Yes you are totally right. And even going way back to ticdays , they were also subjective if we want to believe that or not. The 150 members either make a designers work happen or it doesnt. they really are in control Edited August 30, 2015 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfrontz Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) i appreciate your opinion..really do ( see Brasso Thats how adults with a different opinion answer) Define entertaining? I think you can find many versions of that. GE subjective? Yes you are totally right. And even going way back to ticdays , they were also subjective if we want to believe that or not. The 150 members either make a designers work happen or it doesnt. they really are in control Go watch the 1979 scores on YouTube. Listen to how ticked Rondinaro and co. are that Phantom didn't win. Listen to them say 'It's all subjective.'1979. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs17o6DRwDw Edited August 30, 2015 by mfrontz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcorpsfan4567 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Maybe entertaining isn't the right word...but I think that a casual fan most of the time wants to see the shows that they most enjoyed score the best. Any time that doesn't happen, it becomes frustrating unless someone can point to the reason being that the performers of a corps that was to that person more enjoyable did not perform as well as the higher scoring corps. When that isn't the case and when the higher scoring corps wins effect but not the performance captions, lots of questions are raised, the answers of which are usually hard to come by because, again, GE is so subjective. Yes the members have a role in bringing the design to life, but what design is "brought to life" and what isn't is far more subjective than "this snare roll was dirty, this brass release was bad, this guard member dropped her flag", etc. I would also argue that the designers have a MUCH BIGGER role in bringing a show to life than the performers...in my mind, no corps on earth would have made 09 Phantom better than 08, for instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcorpsfan4567 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Someone answer me this...what is the "purpose" of General Effect as a caption? It would seem that many judges disagree on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) Go watch the 1979 scores on YouTube. Listen to how ticked Rondinaro and co. are that Phantom didn't win. Listen to them say 'It's all subjective.' 1979. Yes..all of it is and has been subjective..havent seen that in a while. I remember the night well. My 1st major finalists. The audience was so full of enthusiasm and passion. Also remember it was an age out year for a close relative. We just talked about that just this week...lol thanks for sharing Edited August 30, 2015 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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