2016 Rule Congress proposals

[2muchcoffeeman]

An old argument that was also said about brass , guard and marching.

And because it is old, it is therefore wrong?

[2muchcoffeeman]

Come think of it, I can't imagine how this argument was used in relation to the guard. The guard is spread across the entire field. The only way to judge uniformity and, for lack of a more educated term, "visual balance" is at a distance, unless your guard is marching in a tight box for the whole show.

[GUARDLING]

Come think of it, I can't imagine how this argument was used in relation to the guard. The guard is spread across the entire field. The only way to judge uniformity and, for lack of a more educated term, "visual balance" is at a distance, unless your guard is marching in a tight box for the whole show.

the argument was that you couldnt see such things as hand placements, feet, drill issues, individual mistakes, etc etc. Judges often would stand either in front of a section and sample a group or on the side and scan more members

Edited January 11, 2016 by GUARDLING

[GUARDLING]

And because it is old, it is therefore wrong?

I dont think I said that.

BUT the answer would or could be yes, especially if it does not have a relevance to today's drum corps or how corps are judged or the importance of something today verses even a few years ago.

2011 cadets , often a split drum line and the actual design of that must have been quite difficult to judge from the field.

Edited January 11, 2016 by GUARDLING

[2muchcoffeeman]

I dont think I said that.

BUT the answer would or could be yes, especially if it does not have a relevance to today's drum corps or how corps are judged or the importance of something today verses even a few years ago.

2011 cadets , often a split drum line and the actual design of that must have been quite difficult to judge from the field.

So, your rejoinder that my argument is old is simply that . . . .it's old? Nothing more than that?

So, as old as my argument may be, it may be correct?

Let's debate the matter, as the DCI rules committee will, on its merits, and not whether it is familiar, or old, or tired. It can be all of those things, and still be correct. And let's understand that drums are drums, color guard is color guard, and brass is brass. There are reasons why they are adjudicated separately; they are separate (enough) beasts. Otherwise, let's save DCI a bunch of money and assign a single judge to each contest.

Your point about 2011 Cadets is an interesting one. Indeed, it must have been a challenge to judge that line from a physical standpoint -- getting from the angels portion of the battery to the devil portion. But I'm not following why that difficulty is, by itself, an argument against having the judge on the field for that show.

[GUARDLING]

So, your rejoinder that my argument is old is simply that . . . .it's old? Nothing more than that?

So, as old as my argument may be, it may be correct?

Let's debate the matter, as the DCI rules committee will, on its merits, and not whether it is familiar, or old, or tired. It can be all of those things, and still be correct. And let's understand that drums are drums, color guard is color guard, and brass is brass. There are reasons why they are adjudicated separately; they are separate (enough) beasts. Otherwise, let's save DCI a bunch of money and assign a single judge to each contest.

Your point about 2011 Cadets is an interesting one. Indeed, it must have been a challenge to judge that line from a physical standpoint -- getting from the angels portion of the battery to the devil portion. But I'm not following why that difficulty is, by itself, an argument against having the judge on the field for that show.

There were times I remember the drum line for cadets literally on opposite sides of the field. Now comparisons had to be hard.

As far as the term old, it was a reference to the point it's been quite some time not if it was good or bad.

As far as the differences of each section, they all had field judges at one time for many of the same reasons, technical , comparisons, hands, feet, etc etc.

Personally I do think you will see more changes on how things are judged and as it was said by another poster, corps will decide this.

My reference to guard or brass and marching was just that we all had the same arguments and the change was welcomed by many and opposed by some. We lived through it no matter what side we sat on.

In general, there are still basics in drum corps which means there are still basics in judging, SO the term old can apply to the basics of what we do . How we choose to adapt it to today or if there is a reference or relevance to today's drum corps is a different debate I think.

I've heard ( from drum staffs ) both sides of this debate, some for, some against. I guess in the long run they will decide.

Edited January 11, 2016 by GUARDLING

[ironlips]

There are some interesting points of view here, and many have merit.

One thing that I have not seen mentioned (though, to be fair, I could have missed it) is that when the judge has to move (especially when moving quickly), it is really not possible to hear or see all that is happening. Though I do know this from experience, no one need take my word for it. Just ask any adjudicator.

[GUARDLING]

There are some interesting points of view here, and many have merit.

One thing that I have not seen mentioned (though, to be fair, I could have missed it) is that when the judge has to move (especially when moving quickly), it is really not possible to hear or see all that is happening. Though I do know this from experience, no one need take my word for it. Just ask any adjudicator.

AS a non drummer I did think of this but didn't dare say it...lol. How much is actually missed dodging, running, looking elsewhere. etc etc. It is IMO a very valid point. Your experience in this activity and as a judge as well as designer /writer should at very least be considered. There for sure are other designers/ writers that would agree and of course those who disagree. many with valid points. As to how they actually work for todays drum corps could be another story.

[Jeff Ream]

As I said earlier i think for several reasons, ego also part of it and wanting to do and be the best thing, will still keep it at a high level. Would designers look with a little more sense? Probably and maybe not a bad thing, but because we always want the next best thing I dont see it dropping in quality nor difficulty for the most part.

Will some write smarter not harder? maybe, is that bad?

I remember the exact same arguments with brass and even with marching and guard. I don't think anything dropped there. I guess some could or would want to debate that though..lol

Happy New Year DUDE!...lol

I think designers use sense now, at least at the top levels. no sense writing a 5let when the judge you want to hear it is in the 500 level with a roof over his head, and a hornline and amps between you and them.

brass and guard is much easier to detect from far away.

[Jeff Ream]

Does anyone actually play rudiments anymore? And if so, couldn't a qualified percussion adjudicator "see" (as well as hear) them from a distance?

Many years ago we eliminated inspections because the minutia of a speck of dust on the horn bell had virtually nothing to do with the quality of performance.

This "drum judge on the field" thing will die hard. It's somewhat ironic that drum corps has warmly embraced mixing pure brass and percussion texture with electronics, yet holds on so tightly to the ghost of the tick in this case.

I have no categorical objection to preserving the purity of the batterie, but any adjudicator in the actual performance area constitutes a distraction for me, and I am quite confident that the best of them can evaluate even the smallest details from a respectful distance.

In the final analysis, the corps themselves will decide how they wish to be evaluated, and that is as it should be, I think.

yes, and no. there are so many hybrids now, that you have to see em to call em