2016 Rule Congress proposals

[GUARDLING]

I can still hear when moving. Is that a unique talent? Maybe I should become a judge.

Not to be flippant, either... one of the skills people develop in drum corps is the ability to focus on one thing while doing another. For instance, focusing on listening to the ensemble and playing with them while executing the demands of 2015 drill. If the marchers can still listen while moving, I would think judges are capable of similar skill.

You are responding to one of the best in the activity here although everyone is entitled to an opinion. With that said your point is well taken although someone marching a drill thousands of times verses someone dodging something, senses are surely compromised . I don't think it has anything to do with multi tasking.

Edited January 11, 2016 by GUARDLING

[mingusmonk]

Guardling I am not reading you as "it's old so change it." I don't think that is your message.

I am reading you as "if it's good enough for the other captions it is good enough for percussion."

I think most of us understand that field judges, across all captions, are not expected to take in all things. It's all about sampling. Due to the size of marchers (movers) a visual judge could stand in a relatively small zone or pocket and get a good sample of a wide variety of the moving corps members. Same goes with brass. Simply due to the size of the brass section.

Battery is 18 to 20 members. The expectation is field perc judges to be sampling them about 50% of the time. That is 6 to 7 minutes of expected various battery reads. Next time you are watching some shows, keep track of how much time the battery spends in front of mid field. Then break it down to how much time they spend in on or in front of the Field Numbers. Indoors, at today's level, that is going to be how close you need to start getting a legitimate read of battery. That number is not going to be 7 minutes. Or even close.

Brass and drums are different. That is OK. And those differences seems to be a driver of a lot of this year's other proposals.

[GUARDLING]

Guardling I am not reading you as "it's old so change it." I don't think that is your message.

I am reading you as "if it's good enough for the other captions it is good enough for percussion."

I think most of us understand that field judges, across all captions, are not expected to take in all things. It's all about sampling. Due to the size of marchers (movers) a visual judge could stand in a relatively small zone or pocket and get a good sample of a wide variety of the moving corps members. Same goes with brass. Simply due to the size of the brass section.

Battery is 18 to 20 members. The expectation is field perc judges to be sampling them about 50% of the time. That is 6 to 7 minutes of expected various battery reads. Next time you are watching some shows, keep track of how much time the battery spends in front of mid field. Then break it down to how much time they spend in on or in front of the Field Numbers. Indoors, at today's level, that is going to be how close you need to start getting a legitimate read of battery. That number is not going to be 7 minutes. Or even close.

Brass and drums are different. That is OK. And those differences seems to be a driver of a lot of this year's other proposals.

Youre right on many points.

1st youre right i am not saying it's old so change it. So thank you for seeing that.

Another point is although I personally dont think we need this tic type mentality as iron lips mentioned I do believe that the percussion people need to decide what they feel is best and if it means keeping a judge on the field, If it mean changing that system , so be it. It does seem even within the percussion community there seems to be differences of opinions . At least to those who have shared with me.

[garfield]

You are responding to one of the best ... WHAT... in the activity here although everyone is entitled to an opinion. With that said your point is well taken although someone marching a drill thousands of times verses someone dodging something, senses are surely compromised . I don't think it has anything to do with multi tasking.

I think this specificity is important not because I don't know who he is, but because who he is and what he's "...one of the best..." at is germane to the discussion. No offense intended, but I would expect ironHANDS might be a better screen name for someone well-versed in percussion and its judging.

[GUARDLING]

I think this specificity is important not because I don't know who he is, but because who he is and what he's "...one of the best..." at is germane to the discussion. No offense intended, but I would expect ironHANDS might be a better screen name for someone well-versed in percussion and its judging.

I would certainly agree that the percussion people within the corps should be deciding this BUT this doesnt mean that those at a high level dont get it. There is not 1 section isolated from the others although often percussion as well as guard seem to march ( so to speak ) to their own beat..lol

Edited January 11, 2016 by GUARDLING

[garfield]

Youre right on many points.

1st youre right i am not saying it's old so change it. So thank you for seeing that.

Another point is although I personally dont think we need this tic type mentality as iron lips mentioned I do believe that the percussion people need to decide what they feel is best and if it means keeping a judge on the field, If it mean changing that system , so be it. It does seem even within the percussion community there seems to be differences of opinions . At least to those who have shared with me.

This is not a tic-type mentality discussion. It's a discussion of whether judges can award appropriate build-up credit for difficulty and complexity in drumline writing.

That a drum judge was on the field during the tic days doesn't change that, and I strongly disagree with the impression that this discussion is related to tics. It actually the opposite - drummers get points for playing technicality when a judge is on the field. It's highly unlikely that they'll get similar build-up credit for difficulty if the judge is on the track or in the box.

First, tics were taken away. Now, credit for complexity and difficulty are being challenged. Me thinks maybe there really is an effort to "dumb down" drum lines even as I actually know that such proposals are often thrown up to only vote them down. The fact that the proposal came up again is not indicative of general "drummer sentiment" or disagreement on the point.

Edited January 11, 2016 by garfield

[garfield]

I would certainly agree that the percussion people within the corps should be deciding this BUT this doesnt mean that those at a high level dont get it. There is not 1 section isolated from the others although often percussion as well as guard seem to march ( so to speak ) to their own beat..lol

Heh. I see what you did there...

Lol

[GUARDLING]

This is not a tic-type mentality discussion. It's a discussion of whether judges can award appropriate build-up credit for difficulty and complexity in drumline writing.

That a drum judge was on the field during the tic days doesn't change that, and I strongly disagree with the impression that this discussion is related to tics. It actually the opposite - drummers get points for playing technicality when a judge is on the field. It's highly unlikely that they'll get similar build-up credit for difficulty if the judge is on the track or in the box.

First, tics were taken away. Now, credit for complexity and difficulty are being challenged. Me thinks maybe there really is an effort to "dumb down" drum lines even as I actually know that such proposals are often thrown up to only vote them down. The fact that the proposal came up again is no more indicative of general "drummer sentiment" or disagreement on the point.

Well as I did say this discussion far beyond here has multiple reactions as well as opinions within the percussion community ( meaning those teaching corps ) They will for sure decide either way, as it should be. I totally would accept whatever they decide, change or not now or in the future.

Edited January 11, 2016 by GUARDLING

[N.E. Brigand]

To get the big picture, you have to address the little things.

I know from judging percussion upstairs the last two falls, you do miss stuff you wouldn't get up close. It's a lot harder to diagnose where the issue may be coming from (hand positioning, etc.) from far away. And I can tell watching DCA, where judges are off the field, clarity and precision is suffering.

This seems like a very important point (and it only took twelve pages for someone to mention it): part of what the judge does is to help the corps know how to improve.

[Jeff Ream]

I dont disagree . where I might be questioning is the significance. In other areas of the activity what was significant just a few years ago let alone form decades ago is ir could be viewed very different today. At least in many peoples view.

maybe my question to pose to others is have views changed on this ? I very much so remember , even myself, having very different views compared to today.

seeing people out of step at finals is significant. Sadly, it's become a top down activity, and what I think we're going to see is if the attention isn't focused on the bottom, it will bleed over to the top. I've seen it happen at the HS level