No Detailed Recaps

[Jeff Ream]

That's possible, but I seriously wonder if those of us who geek out of analytical studying of recaps are in the niche of a niche of a niche and this won't affect more than a very small bit of the fan base. Short of people getting the perception that DCI is lacking transparency AND doesn't really trust their judges to do their job (while spending all winter studying WGI recaps, and the previous fall studying band recaps, and seeing pretty much every other circuit doesn't seem to share whatever concern DCI has with publishing full recaps), and thus has diminished faith in the activity & loses interest, I don't see this as being a big deal for the most part when it comes to fans. I don't think many people are looking at it the way you or I are, but there are PLENTY of people in the world who focus on aspects that I don't, and who don't care about things I find important.

It is what it is, and in my mind DCI can't unring this bell anytime soon

well, look at it this way.

early season, you have shows running in 3 regions. so we check the site early, an hour or so later, and then late night. thats 3 web views a person in aday for at least a month.

now multiply that by say 1000 people. 3000 less web hits a day can add up. I know i'll go to the scores app to see scores now, it's easier than DCI on a phone. that ads up to a lot of people not seeing the annoying pop up ads.

i personally use the recaps to better myself as a judge. i also thnk the press release was bad for DCI standards as it chucked the judges under the bus in a way i dont think they planned on. I also don't see a lack of recaps adding to intrigue over the season. hell subscribe to Hops facebook page. you dont recaps to see him speak up about placements even at the caption level. He isn't going to change his behavior. I'm sure we'll see a facebook group "dci recaps" get created. all in all, while i'm sure this was done with good intentions, the roll out reeks of #### poor planning and wording

[Jeff Ream]

just wondering. Did you have a snowday for your school district today???

if he got snow we're in trouble

[Jeff Ream]

I am not so sure (which is why I asked so many questions earlier), but I suspect that one of the benefits of this idea is to put an end to the practice of instructors discussing rival corps in critiques. If recaps are not available, then instructors should not even have the rival numbers to compare and object about. Critique might actually become focused entirely on how to improve your own corps, and not dissing some other corps.

I realize that instructors can still make educated guesses about how their corps fared against certain rivals. But they cannot make the same critique arguments based on "guesses", and the judge can more easily dismiss that whole line of questioning as an improper use of critique time.

the judge has an easy way to end that issue. I've used it.

" this is your time to talk about your unit. If you wish to discuss them, fine, but then you get no feedback on your group"

works every time

[Jeff Ream]

Maybe. See, as with all things in life, there is no black/white or cut/dry. If judges have legit intelligent discourse with each other to discus philosophy or what-not, judges changing minds isn't "slotting" it's more a judge becoming better informed (I also mentioned maybe the judge changes nothing as far as how they score/rank the groups).

I see slotting more of what people on here equate to "Blue Devils scored high last night, they continue to score high tonight even though I THINK Crown has a better show." I've always thought that to a certain extent publishing recaps ASAP to the entire world keeps the judges "honest" to an extent. Not only will they get heat from corps in critique (tape BETTER properly explain the number!), and not only will the judges get heat from DCI Judge Admin (if BD is ticked off with their number from you and complains to the Admin to get you off the 'important' panels, your tape really better justify the number), but the entire general public will know: how you score groups, what your trends are, how your numbers management is, if you obviously seem to favor groups or disfavor groups, if your content/achievement subs almost ALWAYS line up, if you spend the entire season with Cadets 1 Crown 2 Blue Devils 3, etc.

This change will keep the public end of that process out of the equation and maybe create a more closed-door atmosphere/perception about judging. That feels like a step back to the previous millennium which is never a great idea

last year, for the first time, we had a situation where the top, middle and bottom moved all over the place. When you have 22 corps, you'll establish neighborhoods in judging. these groups end up here, these groups end up there. it happens regardless of looking at recaps or not, unless someone truly breaks out and things click. I always think of Boston 2000 for that kind of scenario.

but even within those neighborhoods, we saw shifting DAILY! hell look at the percussion caption alone! That right there showed all of the touted philosophy changes etc Cesario crowed about were working!

and now, you get to see none of it. i'll lay odds you have the same top 5 this year recaps or not.

[Jeff Ream]

I'll go there...

Entertainment sells tickets. Competitive success sells membership & corporate companies for sponsorship. Would Scott Johnson be an international clinician if DCI was getting Superior-only festival-like ratings, same as maybe five or six other corps annually? Maybe, maybe not. I've heard from at least one DCI Director that the percussion caption exists as-is (this was a few years ago) because the competitive aspect drives personal business/employment unlike any other caption does. Caption Heads have signature sticks and mallets, some have personal deals with head, stick, and cymbal companies, and some even have personal cuts of region sales on products. This is ALL based on their competitive success in DCI and WGI. If Caption scores or all scores go away completely, the well dries up sooner rather than later.

As far as Regionals and Champs only being scored, that's an interesting prospect that would potentially make things a bit more difficult to gauge success throughout the season. A looooooot of money is invested in gear, props, flags, uniforms, etc. and it would be tricky to ONLY hear if something works/doesn't when it's too late to change anything.

competition thats unpredictable sells tickets. look at the uptick in sales in 2011 and 2013. i bet without last years insanity tickets sales were less as the season wore on

[cixelsyd]

FWIW I know of at least one judge who did exactly that in 2014 (still judging :-P ).

Sorry, but no one made their DCI judging debut by handing a precedent breaking caption defeat to the 2014 Blue Devils.

[cixelsyd]

I've always thought that to a certain extent publishing recaps ASAP to the entire world keeps the judges "honest" to an extent. Not only will they get heat from corps in critique (tape BETTER properly explain the number!), and not only will the judges get heat from DCI Judge Admin (if BD is ticked off with their number from you and complains to the Admin to get you off the 'important' panels, your tape really better justify the number), but the entire general public will know: how you score groups, what your trends are, how your numbers management is, if you obviously seem to favor groups or disfavor groups, if your content/achievement subs almost ALWAYS line up, if you spend the entire season with Cadets 1 Crown 2 Blue Devils 3, etc.

That is an interesting perspective.

Of course, all these things will still be revealed in 2016... just not with the same immediacy. If a judge fails to manage numbers, favors a certain corps, or always slots corps in the same order, we will still see those trends when the recaps are published. Whether these issues are best dealt with in the heat of the moment or in a post-season review is a debate worth having. Hope you join us in mid-August for that.

Meanwhile, I am more interested in seeing what might happen if judges are left to judge without the past precedents of recent recaps available to them. I go back far enough to remember that yellow slip of paper at DCM, hard evidence of the lengths to which judges will go to use recent numbers to slot where the next number they give "should" go. I remember a lot of people being upset and demoralized about that. I do not remember anyone glad to hear of the practice, recommending all judges follow suit.

This change will keep the public end of that process out of the equation and maybe create a more closed-door atmosphere/perception about judging. That feels like a step back to the previous millennium which is never a great idea

Also an interesting view. I would point out, though, that while the public has had varying access to the recaps over time, the insiders have always had the inside information. It would be interesting to see what would happen without that inside information. I keep thinking of those first two shows in 2011, the only time I know of where scoring was kept under wraps for a couple of days - and how different the scores were from one day to the next. While this change only delays publication of the final level of detail (the full recap), it does so for the duration of the season.

[Michael Boo]

...

DCI website traffic will be next to nothing if this happens.

No, because I'll be posting lots of glamour shots of myself. It's the least I can do.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Michael Boo

[mj3004]

As a staff member, I think it's great.

Keeping the recaps from the public will avoid all the extra discussions on here and on the road about a caption under performing or not meeting expectations.

For example, the first show happens, everyone sees a recap and then all of a sudden it's discussions on here, on other forums, on the busses of "Wow - did you see Corps X's percussion score?" I thought they were going to turn things around?

Now when a drumline comes off the field some night after playing the best show they've had all season and feeling incredible, but then find out an hour later the drum judge dumped them, they won't all be ###### off, frustrated all night and at rehearsal the next morning. I've been with a corps where the members are talking about recaps every night and how the "Guard is pulling us down." It's not good. The same discussions happen on here and then turn into who should be fired and replaced during the season. The members talk about it. Yes, it shouldn't be an issue, but they're kids and they're competitive. Of course, the staff can share the details with the members, but it's one less piece of extra drama to not have to deal with unless you choose to put it into the mix.

Great move by DCI.

[Eleran]

What he said ^^^^^^