The State of Drum and Bugle Corps

[Jeff Ream]

I can see where you're coming from on this. But as those small corps died off. (again, money in vs money out - shows/travel/housing costs rising) they had to rethink their recruitment. Now they're dipping into the same pools as the Jr corps. Think of the saturation of market in the NJ/NY/PA area. Tough Market.

well not necessarily. full tour, or even say Surf sized tour isnt a financial option, whereas DCA is more affordable.

The key IMO, is to get the kids in, train em, let em do DCI....then get them to come back ( except for C2 with their age limits obviously). Between PA, NJ and MD alone you have a zillion bands in 3 competitive circuits just in the east....for western PA there's 2 other circuits out there. Yes, C2 dominates the recruiting efforts in YEA shows, TOB and Cavalcade have plenty of kids in the 3 states to go after.

but....when i see the recruiting tables at championships, outside really of one corps, the effort and hustle to engage and presentation isn't all that.

[Jeff Ream]

Again... another post that will get me hate mail... (these are opinions from my involvement and observation of both circuits, and only my opinions)

Well, first, i think the corps and show sponsors collectively need to work together better. (Remember earlier in this year, when they had three shows on top of each other less than an hour from each other on the schedule...?) That stuff can't happen. You also can't book shows that are on the same night as DCI shows within a 100 mile radius. If the tickets costs are even remotely close, you're going to lose ticket buyers to the other circuit. And those people who are "DCA only" are dying off. They age, they have other stuff to do. Either way, the people you need to be attracting are sitting at the other show.

I'm not sure it helps to have so many shows, so close to each other in such short amounts of time. I think you lose opportunities to sell tickets if its the same lineup in two places within an hour drive. (most major cities and artists have a 150 mile clause in their booking contracts. Which means you can't book them on a show within that radius in the same week) Yes i know its easier on the corps if there are two shows next door to each other. But if you moved those two shows that are less than 50 miles apart, to 100 miles apart, the corps can still get their performance op with only a little more cost in fuel, and you've now pulled two different sets of ticket buyers and expanded your reach a little more.

Second, if DCA and the corps want more DCA corps, they need to find a way to get more shows. There's a corps in Columbus talking about going through Soundsport in DCI and then working into DCA ranks. Which is cool, but they have limited show opportunities where they are. So travel costs are going to be a huge concern for them. I think students are more attracted to something they can experience first hand. Theres maybe 25 shows in total in the DCA season? (18 of which are in the northeast) I don't think you can grow your activity with so few opportunities to perform, and in so few places. (no, parades all over don't count... no one really loves to play parades)

The other problem is that the DCA corps is still trying to be the "poor kids DCI". The shows are simply too demanding to be clean by august for most of the corps. They need to rethink what they are performing. I actually liked that the styles between DCA and DCI were different. Now it looks like one it trying to copy the other, and not doing it terribly well due to time constraints.

Get out of rochester. I know its cheap. Its cheap because the city needs a lot of love, and a pressure washer. Yeah, I know that they are updating the stadium. It doesn't matter if your crowd doesn't want to go there. There's nothing else in that area. There's no easy way to get there and there's no local corps to help draw people and market.

Tap into those southern connections. CV and Alliance have shows that look to be selling well. Why not try to get some more shows down that way? Make it worthwhile for the northern corps to travel down there.

And last... marketing. If you buy a ticket for a DCI show, they're going to send you invites to buy tickets for everything they have coming up. Indoor season, band show, other corps show that they perform in... etc. I've purchased tix from several DCA shows in the last couple years. And its nothing but radio silence. I have to seek them out to find information.

great point about scheduling! A few years ago, MBI came in to Scranton...a sure fire dogfight....scheduled against DCI East.and because DCI East went on sale in October and MBI was announced I think in May.....Scranton lost. I'd never run in Eastern PA/NJ/MD around DCI East week.The tour always comes up through Atlanta, now into Chester or NJ plus maybe Annapolis, into Allentown, before heading west Sunday. DCA's best option that weekend is to go north!

[Jeff Ream]

the number of corps is not an indicator of health IMO. Even know we're seeing more corps than we did until the last decade showing up for finals weekend.

but attendance is an issue at local shows and finals weekend. The corps can make money off of finals weekend, and have. rain can kill a local sponsor....imagine what Bucs and Hurcs dealt with in 2011 with the hurricane charging north that weekend! But the fanbase is still older in DCA, and in order to grow, it must get younger.

the catch is kids want to see the more demanding shows like they do in DCI.

[cixelsyd]

Many thoughts provoked by this thread so far. Before I respond to individual posts... what I would most like to hear about is the following.

Have you noticed what is going on in DCI open class? They still toil on with virtually no DCI money, very little tour access, limited time to perfect shows, very little marketing, no fan base comparable to that of world class, and a championship in a location chosen primarily for cost considerations. (Sounds a lot like DCA.) But they are growing. Not just in number of corps, but in the size of these corps, the strength of their performances, and the diversity of their locations.

If DCI open class can grow, then maybe DCA can too.

There are several among the posters in this thread who have experience with both DCA and what we now call DCI open class. Please share your thoughts on what you think open class is doing right, and how much of that can be employed constructively in DCA.

[cixelsyd]

As for the 35 rule, the issues' been beaten to death here. It's been stated repeatedly that show sponsors and fans were underwhelmed to put it lightly by some of those corps, no matter how much they cared and how much passion they had. To be frank, many of them were just not very good.

Soundsport and Minis are the way to go for those organizations who can't make a 35 member minimum.

Funny thing about 35 member corps. When they are obscure, underprepared corps from western PA that shall remain nameless, it is a problem that DCA should ban from the field. When they are clever, well prepared and designing to their strengths like the Govenaires, it is a blessing that DCA should create a division to showcase. Maybe size should not be the sole consideration for what is presented to the fans at a show.

In that context, consider how DCI and DCA utilize SoundSport and minicorps. Both sometimes perform on the football field. Both have been used by developing corps as a stepping stone toward later field competition. Are there differences between DCI and DCA here? Anything one can learn from the other?

[cixelsyd]

This may not be a great post for some BUT......

Maybe it's time for DCI and DCA to merge. I mean totally merge! Realizing that DCA is a weekend thing, have drum corps shows on a Saturday night where you could see, let's say, Cadets, Cadets2, Reading, Hawthorne, Hurricanes, Jersey Surf, Boston, White Sabers and 1 or 2 lower tier junior corps. Now traditionalists in DCA may not like the idea, we need to face reality in that DCA shows are dying and the old standby show sites are dwindling away. DCA management still runs their side of the house (in a way) and DCI runs their side. Maybe by working together (everyday) we can see a brighter future for ALL of drum corps.

DCA worked from 1965 till maybe 2005 but the times have changed considerably. There are more college aged men and women in DCA corps than ever before. If you want to keep moving all of the activity forward then MAYBE this is the answer. Otherwise, the answer is death to more DCA corps. Soundsport and Mini corps are great but the attention is not on them. More people care about Blue Devils, Crown, Reading, Cabs then Ghost Riders or other Mini's or SoundSport corps. That was NOT meant to be mean but realistic. How many people pay money to see Mini corps and how many pay to see the top corps?

Well, agree or not......take it from here!

I admire your courage in offering this idea here.

As a variation on this, what if instead of full merger, DCA and DCI just form a deeper strategic partnership where DCA is operated by DCI as a self governing division, similar to open class? This might be more palatable to both DCI and DCA.

[KeithHall]

I can see how DCA wants to be on their own as they started this association 7 years before DCI. But the reality is the entire activity has dwindled and, although we see some corps trying to start up, we still don't see annual growth. That also includes paying fans. I personally don't see a reason to go to championships because 99% of the time we know who will win the championship, and that includes DCI too. In the 1970's you never knew who was going to win from show to show (most likely to the change in how judges judge).

[cixelsyd]

why is it that everyone thinks DCA is struggling with 20 or so corps in the circuit,.......................here is some trivia for you, (answers should include all classes)

A. What is the largest number of corps for DCI Prelims since inception? Year?

B. What is the smallest number of corps for DCI Prelims since inception Year?

C. What is the largest number of corps for DCA prelims since inception? Year?

D. What is the smallest number of corps for DCA prelims since inception? Year?

A. Most corps at DCI Championships: 98 (1981 and 1982)

B. Least corps at DCI Championships: 36 (2012 and 2013)

C. Most corps at DCA Championships: 26 (2005)

D. Least corps at DCA Championships: 13 (1993), possibly fewer at the 1967 prelims

[cixelsyd]

Attendance has been mentioned at least twice here:

While I don't have the real numbers, as I'm not brass of either organization. I can give you the simple answer. (At least from what seems to be the similar perceptions of many on this forum.)

The crowds at the landmark events of DCA look to be getting smaller each year. (maybe the southern shows are selling well, but the last few DCA events i went to in NJ and CT looked to be just barely over half capacity, and finals looks smaller each year)

the number of corps is not an indicator of health IMO. Even know we're seeing more corps than we did until the last decade showing up for finals weekend.

but attendance is an issue at local shows and finals weekend. The corps can make money off of finals weekend, and have. rain can kill a local sponsor....imagine what Bucs and Hurcs dealt with in 2011 with the hurricane charging north that weekend! But the fanbase is still older in DCA, and in order to grow, it must get younger.

Naturally, we should seek greater attendance - but we also need to be realistic. Like it or not, the days of five-figure DCA crowds may simply be over. Back when DCA and DCI were products of comparable quality (i.e. before DCI corps habitually toured for over 3 weeks), their crowds were somewhat comparable too. Today, world class DCI corps work full time for 2 or 3 months, and achieve more than can be done on a weekend schedule. If DCA plans to offer the same kind of product, but inevitably not of comparable quality, then we all need to accept some degree of the declining attendance that has occurred in the process.

[C.Holland]

well not necessarily. full tour, or even say Surf sized tour isnt a financial option, whereas DCA is more affordable.

The key IMO, is to get the kids in, train em, let em do DCI....then get them to come back ( except for C2 with their age limits obviously). Between PA, NJ and MD alone you have a zillion bands in 3 competitive circuits just in the east....for western PA there's 2 other circuits out there. Yes, C2 dominates the recruiting efforts in YEA shows, TOB and Cavalcade have plenty of kids in the 3 states to go after.

but....when i see the recruiting tables at championships, outside really of one corps, the effort and hustle to engage and presentation isn't all that.

Here's my concern. And again... I don't want to sound like i'm bashing DCA, but this needs to be said. I think this is why they are having to go younger in recruitment for DCA. After a few years of abusing your body in a Jr corps. I think most age outs don't want to do more of that. They want to move on with their lives. They've already been through the highest level of the marching arts, they can't go up any higher. My concern is that the style of DCA as it currently is, is too close to DCI, and after a few seasons on tour, they don't want to march DCA because it feels like taking a step down. If DCA went back to the "more fun, less art" approach. You might get a few more. Because that's a different style of performance. DCA used to be more about playing and content, than artistic design. No one wants to hear that DCA feels like a step down from DCI, but it is currently. The shows are styled like DCI. There's too much in them to clean, not enough "fun" to hold the DCA crowd's attention, and not enough time to make any of it match the level of what the age outs just came from. They've also just spent $3K+ for each season they marched. But until those corps setting the pace in DCA acknowledge this, and change how they set the pace. Its not going to get better.