KeithHall Posted March 16, 2016 Author Share Posted March 16, 2016 BTW...I am just tossing things out to discuss! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcorpsfever Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 This may not be a great post for some BUT...... Maybe it's time for DCI and DCA to merge. Although there are similarities between DCI and DCA, I don't know how DCI would benefit from a merger. There already exists a strategic partnership between the two. DCI is well positioned with academia whereas DCA is not. It's the school-age kids that are the lifeblood of the activity, regardless if DCI's outreach is more global than community based. The growth in high school programs is a direct result of the successes of DCI. One feeds off of the other. Although the activity may not resemble what we experienced 30+ years ago, the product and results have been vastly improved by what has proven to be the junior circuit's strengths. DCA must find its own path. Sadly, I don't think it can fully succeed just by providing an expanded activity to where DCI leaves off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHall Posted March 16, 2016 Author Share Posted March 16, 2016 I think DCA does have academia involved in all their corps and the management is tops but the two organizations can assist each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Again... another post that will get me hate mail... (these are opinions from my involvement and observation of both circuits, and only my opinions) Well, first, i think the corps and show sponsors collectively need to work together better. (Remember earlier in this year, when they had three shows on top of each other less than an hour from each other on the schedule...?) That stuff can't happen. You also can't book shows that are on the same night as DCI shows within a 100 mile radius. If the tickets costs are even remotely close, you're going to lose ticket buyers to the other circuit. And those people who are "DCA only" are dying off. They age, they have other stuff to do. Either way, the people you need to be attracting are sitting at the other show. I'm not sure it helps to have so many shows, so close to each other in such short amounts of time. I think you lose opportunities to sell tickets if its the same lineup in two places within an hour drive. (most major cities and artists have a 150 mile clause in their booking contracts. Which means you can't book them on a show within that radius in the same week) Yes i know its easier on the corps if there are two shows next door to each other. But if you moved those two shows that are less than 50 miles apart, to 100 miles apart, the corps can still get their performance op with only a little more cost in fuel, and you've now pulled two different sets of ticket buyers and expanded your reach a little more. Second, if DCA and the corps want more DCA corps, they need to find a way to get more shows. There's a corps in Columbus talking about going through Soundsport in DCI and then working into DCA ranks. Which is cool, but they have limited show opportunities where they are. So travel costs are going to be a huge concern for them. I think students are more attracted to something they can experience first hand. Theres maybe 25 shows in total in the DCA season? (18 of which are in the northeast) I don't think you can grow your activity with so few opportunities to perform, and in so few places. (no, parades all over don't count... no one really loves to play parades) The other problem is that the DCA corps is still trying to be the "poor kids DCI". The shows are simply too demanding to be clean by august for most of the corps. They need to rethink what they are performing. I actually liked that the styles between DCA and DCI were different. Now it looks like one it trying to copy the other, and not doing it terribly well due to time constraints. Get out of rochester. I know its cheap. Its cheap because the city needs a lot of love, and a pressure washer. Yeah, I know that they are updating the stadium. It doesn't matter if your crowd doesn't want to go there. There's nothing else in that area. There's no easy way to get there and there's no local corps to help draw people and market. Tap into those southern connections. CV and Alliance have shows that look to be selling well. Why not try to get some more shows down that way? Make it worthwhile for the northern corps to travel down there. And last... marketing. If you buy a ticket for a DCI show, they're going to send you invites to buy tickets for everything they have coming up. Indoor season, band show, other corps show that they perform in... etc. I've purchased tix from several DCA shows in the last couple years. And its nothing but radio silence. I have to seek them out to find information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totaleefree Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Maybe I am out of the loop on this but I don't see the gloom and doom that is being expressed on these two threads. Maybe attendance at the championship is not setting records, but that is just one weekend of a 10 to 12 week season. Most of the corps members know from the first camp that they are going to pay $150 -200 to show their stuff against their peers at the end of the summer. I am sure they would love a full house for that show, but a few empty seats isn't going to stop them from going all out and putting on the best show possible. I don't know the full history of the event, but I doubt that the championship weekend has ever been a moneymaker for any of corps. In a softball league you may win your local championship, then find out you need to raise 10k (as a team ) to go to the National Pipefitters Softball championship. And once there you will play in front of 100 people if you are lucky. I believe a lot of the corps members see the championship as a similar thing. Where attendance counts is at the local corps sponsored shows and at camp weekends and from the reports I have heard these are doing well. No they are not making enough from a show to cover the years expenses, but people from the communities are showing up to see them. From reports I saw several shows in Jersey had good crowds, the buccaneers show was successful enough that they sponsored 2 shows last year. Corps in the South sponsored shows And I don't know if they made big profits, but none of wound up folding the corps because of the lack of local support. I went to DCA finals in 2000 or 2001 and then only the top 5 open class corps had more than 80 members, The Buccaneers had only 30 horns and came in 2nd or 3rd place. Knowing that 2 of the top 5 from that year wouldn't be around in 15 years you would have thought the activity was doomed then. However this year all the open class corps had more than 80 members most more than 100 and 3 full sized corps failed to make finals, While the number of members doesn't make a corps necessarily good that at least 13 corps can recruit large numbers shows that the activity is not dying. If you live in upstate NY you may think that the end of Bingo money meant the end of DCA, while Crusaders, Brigadiers and Empire statesmen had a tough time adapting to a bingo free environment White Sabers stepped up and has kept a competitive possible contender in NY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 The Cavaliers probably thought the G7 was a great idea at the time, Till they realized they were not allowed to play those reindeer games anymore. Think about that one a second. Thought about it before you asked for a second. I've seen a lot of under 35 member corps BITD, mainly in the Garden State Circuit, a couple with DCA. At least the GSC teams were there as urban youth organizations trying to teach and help kids as the primary goal. The GSC shows in the mid-90's were attended by parents, and thinly. There was no real fan base attending. The corps were scoring mainly in the 40's and 50's using DCI sheets. I can tell you Southern Illusion did a pretty good job with 8ish horns and 6 percussion and about 4 guard members with a rather carefully and smartly designed show. This about this for a second, though- Will Joe six-pack go to a show to see that? No. They did not then and especially wouldn't now. It was parents and maybe a couple of hard core old schoolers. As for the DCA under 35 units, I can think of one readily from around the 1992-1994 era that showed up for maybe 2 contests and then folded. Ran by 2 well-meaning guys who had very strong musical knowledge but no clue as to how to run a business. I can also think of sitting in the stands at some of the DCA shows with those kinds of corps appearing and cringing, not at the corps- but cringing at some of the snide, frustrated and angry comments from fans. Mainly at Bucknell, where that show had a large local fan attendance. It's why I do back the 35 rule. For Lord's sake, if you can't get a field unit together with say.... 4 Bass Drums, 2 tenors, 4 snares, 6 Front Ensemble (16 percussion) 8 Color Guard (Govies have more) 6 Trumpets, 4 Mellos, 6 Baris, 2 Contra (18 Brass)....(The Govies do better with less than that, yes, I know.) That's 42, give or take a couple off any section and tighten down to 35. The point is, how in the heck does one expect to present any kind of cogent and crowd-engaging field program with less? It can be done in Minis and SoundSport because of the smaller stage. Sorry, but some of those corps weren't putting people in the seats to see them. I saw it for myself, they were turning people off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 why is it that everyone thinks DCA is struggling with 20 or so corps in the circuit,.......................here is some trivia for you, (answers should include all classes) A. What is the largest number of corps for DCI Prelims since inception? Year? B. What is the smallest number of corps for DCI Prelims since inception Year? C. What is the largest number of corps for DCA prelims since inception? Year? D. What is the smallest number of corps for DCA prelims since inception? Year? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlisko Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 >>D. What is the smallest number of corps for DCA prelims since inception? Year?<< I think this is a trick question ... there were no DCA Prelims in 65 and 66 ... so ... the answer is ZERO As far as Finals, six corps competed in the 1965 DCA Championship ... Archie was a no-show that year ... :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 why is it that everyone thinks DCA is struggling with 20 or so corps in the circuit,.......................here is some trivia for you, (answers should include all classes) A. What is the largest number of corps for DCI Prelims since inception? Year? B. What is the smallest number of corps for DCI Prelims since inception Year? C. What is the largest number of corps for DCA prelims since inception? Year? D. What is the smallest number of corps for DCA prelims since inception? Year? While I don't have the real numbers, as I'm not brass of either organization. I can give you the simple answer. (At least from what seems to be the similar perceptions of many on this forum.) The crowds at the landmark events of DCA look to be getting smaller each year. (maybe the southern shows are selling well, but the last few DCA events i went to in NJ and CT looked to be just barely over half capacity, and finals looks smaller each year) Last year DCA may have not lost any corps, but they also didn't gain any corps. (and this year they'll be without a finalist due to Kidsgrove not coming to the US) DCI has been adding groups every few years since 2004, and have had a few corps make the jump from Open to World since that time as well. DCI crowds have been growing each year. And the attendance this year went up again for both Open Class and World Class finals. Stagnation isn't good for an activity that needs to consistently attract new fans and members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 The Cavaliers probably thought the G7 was a great idea at the time, Till they realized they were not allowed to play those reindeer games anymore. Think about that one a second. I was not sure I'd live long enough to see a post basically equating the G7 situation with the DCA "under 35" rule. Perhaps there is hope that dogs and cats can live together. Comparing the the G7 issue and the "under 35" issue is like comparing apples to nuclear weapons. LOL 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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