Bring Back the Oldies

[Screamer]

No.

[Phantombari1]

And so goes the evolution of the activity.

[Eleran]

The fact that FAR more Corps have done " Pines of Rome " over the years than " Melaquena " has been performed by the numbers of Corps seems to get lost in the discussion

Really? Facts are a #####, Brasso.

Pines (4 current WC corps): Muchachos, Cavaliers, Star of Indiana, Spartans, Phantom Regiment, US Naval Academy, Legends, Boston Crusaders, Cadets, Vanguard Cadets

Malaguena (5 current WC corps): Cambridge Caballeros, Madison, Bronx Kingsmen, Norwood Park Imperials, Velvet Knights, Cascades, Muchachos, Blue Stars, Jeanettes, Northstars, Americanos, Blue Devils B, Kiwanis Kavaliers, US Naval Academy, Spirit of New Jersey, Boston Crusaders, Cadets, US Coast Guard Academy, Lake Erie Regiment, Legends, Genesis

And as far as Pines goes, not everyone plays the same movement.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Eleran

[BRASSO]

Really? Facts are a #####, Brasso.

Pines (4 current WC corps): Muchachos, Cavaliers, Star of Indiana, Spartans, Phantom Regiment, US Naval Academy, Legends, Boston Crusaders, Cadets, Vanguard Cadets

Malaguena (5 current WC corps): Cambridge Caballeros, Madison, Bronx Kingsmen, Norwood Park Imperials, Velvet Knights, Cascades, Muchachos, Blue Stars, Jeanettes, Northstars, Americanos, Blue Devils B, Kiwanis Kavaliers, US Naval Academy, Spirit of New Jersey, Boston Crusaders, Cadets, US Coast Guard Academy, Lake Erie Regiment, Legends, Genesis,

Good research. "Pines of Rome" has been done by 14 Drum Corps before in competition according to my initial research. It appears that you have found approx. 21 Corps that have played " Melaquena " in competition. As such, I will amend my initial remarks above as such, ask the Gentleman from across the aisle for a minute of additional time, and with unanimous consent, ask the Speaker to enter into the public record that it DOES in fact appear that the " oldie " Melaquena " has been played by more Corps in competition in the past, than has the " oldie " Pines of Rome " where a 15th Corps will have played this song in competition, once it is played in competition by the 2016 Cadets next month. The record will also show that as far as been determined, no additional corps is expected to play " Melaquena " in competition this summer. I thank you for your time, and your cogent remarks and astute and accurate research on this matter... and with additional unanimous consent I now ask the honorable Speaker to relinquish any further time I might have remaining on this issue.

Edited May 17, 2016 by BRASSO

[HornTeacher]

Good research. Pines of Rome has been done by 14 Drum Corps before in competition according to my initial research. It appears that you have found approx. 21 Corps that have played " Melaquena " in competition. As such, I will amend my remarks as such, ask the Gentleman from across the aisle for a minute of additional time, and with unanimous consent, ask the Speaker to enter into the public record that it DOES in fact appear that the " oldie " Melaquena has been played by more Corps in competition in the past, than has the " oldie " Pines of Rome " where a 15th Corps will have played this song in competition, once it is played in competition by the 2016 Cadets next month. The record will also show that as far as been determined, no additional corps is expected to play " Melaquena " in competition this summer. I thank you for your time, and your cogent remarks and asute and accurate research on this matter... and with that I ask the honorable Speaker to relinquish any further time I might have remaining on on this issue.

And who says there isn't civility and reason in Washington??? :>)

[GUARDLING]

Really ? One quick glance at the announced music of some of the elite corps music selections shows lots of " oldies " songs they'll play this season that has been played many times already by other Corps. Some brief examples from the elites for this 2016 season :

" Stormy Weather ".... Blue Devils 2016 ( played by 7 other Corps in competition before. )

" Ecstasy of Gold "..... Carolina Crown 2016 ( played by 8 other Corps in competition before. )

" Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra ".... Phantom Regiment 2016 ( played by 10 other Corps in competition before. )

" Pines of Rome "...... Cadets 2016 ( played by 14 other Corps in competition before. )

Lots of other perennial Top 10 Corps will be playing some music this season... ie " oldies "... thats been played before. Why are you seemingly convinced that most of these songs will not come out sounding as well, if not even better than, what other Corps have done before with it in terms of both arrangement and performance ?... or that their 2016 playing of these " oldies " this season will be " a turn off " to fans ?

the point is they are not done the way they were. Remember recently jazz everyone assumed would be done the way it was bitd? What I said was IF many think they are going to be done the way they remember they would or " COULD" be disappointed. All we heard in past year was how corps cut music up.

My point is and no other is that "IF" and I do many many who do think this or would like this "IF" an oldie is not done as one remembers the thing they actually want will or could be be a disappointed. Personally ( for me ) I dont care for pines BUT never did, even bitd no matter who did it Now Malaguena which I know most designers don;'t ever want to hear again I could go for that for sure, in it's entirety or chopped, I wouldn't care.

I do think they will come out well just for the record.Different maybe but great for sure. I never said it wouldnt come out well BUT I also think many of the cut up versions are great also, which many who wanted to hear those things in the past hated it. I did also say "might" as in people who do like this sort of thing " might or may not like newer versions because it's unlikely they will be done as remembered as mentioned by another poster, THAT was my point . Nothing more

Edited May 17, 2016 by GUARDLING

[BRASSO]

My point is and no other is that "IF" and I do many many who do think this or would like this "IF" an oldie is not done as one remembers the thing they actually want will or could be be a disappointed.

I suppose any fan that believes a corps is somehow going to do a song exactly as it was written and performed before is dumb. Are their dumb fans out and about ? Sure. But should we be concerned with them ? No. I don't think so. Corps do redos all the time.. including lots of redos it appears this season. Of the 14 Corps that have performed " Pines of Rome " before as an example, has ANY of the 14 previous renditions by these 14 Corps been written the same ? Had the same Visuals to go with it ? No. Have the 7 other Corps that have performed BD's selected song of " Stormy Weather " had it written in arrangement the same way ? Of course not. So if BD does a different version as well this season, why should we assume that some fans, somewhere, will be disappointed with BD's version this season ?..., that is unlike the other 7 versions, all of which were alike each other as well ? I responded to your initial remark above that fans will be disappointed if they hear an " oldie " Drum Corps song's version by a current Corps this season. They just might. Who knows. But my guess, if they do, it will not be primarily because some of the other 7-14 corps that did it before, all did it exactly the same as the disappointed fan thinks they did... and that Cadets, BD, Crown, Phantom, etc thus should do their "oldie " listed above the exact same way as well. If any fan(s) are thinking along these lines, then maybe they deserve to be disappointed, as they are in a fantasy world of their own creation, that never really existed in the first place with the redo of ANY song, done by ANY Corps.

Edited May 18, 2016 by BRASSO

[GUARDLING]

Good point, but for me, if it's designed and performed well I will like it.

I might like other versions better, but I appreciate "good design" ( which I understand doesn't really mean anything to anyone when I say "good design" ).

For example, Malaguena...

It's been done a TON, but the version that won, Madison Scouts 1988, is probably what most people would called the definitive version.

In 2003, both the Cadets and Boston Crusaders.

I really enjoy the way Boston presented it, but I didn't care for the way the Cadets presented it.

Another one, Rocky Point Holiday.

Loved the 82 & 83 musical arrangements ( would probably give the edge to the '83 arrangement as it fit better with the Mass stuff than ;82 did with Cuban Overture and Concerto in F)

Didn't care for the 2003 version.

Finally, Spanish Fantasy

Loved the BD 1986 version; didn't care for the '94 musical arrangement. ( This one is probably contrary to most, I admit).

Definitely, the last example describes perfectly what you're talking about.

I would agree with this. I actually loved many updated versions and combination arrangements of musical selections both past and present.

[GUARDLING]

I suppose any fan that believes a corps is somehow going to do a song exactly as it was written and performed before is dumb. Are their dumb fans out and about ? Sure. But should we be concerned with them ? No. I don't think so. Corps do redos all the time.. including lots of redos it appears this season. Of the 14 Corps that have performed " Pines of Rome " before, has ANY of the 14 previous renditions b y these 14 Corps been written the same ? Had the same Visuals to go with it ? probably not. Have the 7 other Corps that have performed BD's selected song had it written in arrangement the same way ? Of course not. So if BD does a different version as well this season, why should we assume that " many " will be disappointed with BD's version, that is unlike the other 7 versions, all of which were alike each other as well ? I responded to your initial reply that fans will be disappointed if they hear a version by a current Corps this season of an " oldie ". They just might. But my guess, if they do, it will not be primarily because some of the other 7-14 corps that did it before, all did it exactly the same as the disappointed fan thinks they did. If they are thinking along these lines, then maybe they deserve to be disappointed, as they are in a world of their own creation, that never existed in the first place, imo.

Did I say this? I dont think so. Not sure where you are going with this or why but Im not going there my friend.

This isn't a debate. I made a statement , it's my opinion as well as experiences I have had with those who like one thing or another. I'm also not making a judgement as to if they would be right or wrong or what world people are living in, That's not my call or my business frankly.

[BRASSO]

Did I say this? I dont think so.

No. You did not say this. I did. Any fan that believes that a redo of a song ( or a Theme ) in modern day DCI from another year, will be performed with the same written arrangements of the song ( or Theme ) as before, is probably dumb as a rock to expect that to occur. Thats just my assessment, perhaps as harsh as it might be. So I would not concern ourselves with any fan that will " be disappointed " when they hear an oldie played again, because the arrangement was not as they might have heard the oldie played in arrangement before ( which is what you typed above ). My suggestion is not to be concerned if such fans exist like this. They're stupid with that expectation, as NO Corps in DCI anymore play these " oldies " with the same arrangements as before. Heck, Phantom Regiment did a complete theme redo again in 2008.. And 99.9% of the fans could care less in 2008 that Phantom regiment did a redo of their " Spartacus " theme from 2 years of doing it before. Just as importantly, neither did the Judges. Phantom Regiment won themselves a DCI Title with a redo of " an oldie " in 2008. Their third year of doing this same " oldie " theme worked like a charm for them that season. They have never reached that pinnacle of placement achievement since. So don't sweat the 1%.. at most, imo... of stupid fans that might've been disappointed ( for one example ) that the 2008 version of " Spartacus " and its music selected in arrangements that season was so unlike Phantom Regiment's 1981 and 1982 version of the identical theme Phantom Regiment did again in 2008, if they were around for all three versions. A musical " oldie " song redo too, with a different arrangement, ( and visual enhancements ) has been known to be a successful formula for years for the elite DCI Corps to position themselves musically for a run at a title. If they did not believe so, then there is no way in the world we would see the current elites having so many " oldies " that have been done before in Drum Corps showing up once again in their music selection mix most seasons now.

Edited May 18, 2016 by BRASSO