Corps 19-25 Placeing Higher

[corpsband]

We had prelims and finals at all kinds of other shows throughout the season for decades, before and during DCI, until just recently.

Maybe we should. Why do we need medals, anyway? And why to 3 corps instead of 12? I think that was only to play along with the Olympian nature of the "Summer Music Games" marketing ploy that has long since been abandoned.

By your reasoning, why have any of the other 100 tour shows? For that matter, why have any contests in 2016? We just had a finals last year, so why have another one this year?

Maybe you disagree, but I think every one of these drum corps shows is justifiable. I believe there were 7,924 reasons for having another contest Thursday, and 11,570 reasons for the Friday show. Those were the ticket counts for those events.

The DCI champion is determined by subjective judging among 12 contestants, not by elimination.

dear lord. im not sure if this is all sarcasm or if these comments are all legit, so...yeah.

[C.Holland]

but if you have them all perform on Saturday, you'll likely lose many of those ticket buyers from thursday, and friday.

[2muchcoffeeman]

but if you have them all perform on Saturday, you'll likely lose many of those ticket buyers from thursday, and friday.

I think this could be true. Or it might not be true. There was a day when it was just prelims and finals. Now it's prelims-semis-finals. The dillution does not seem to have wounded the finances of DCI.

Three days of all corps might be a marketing bonanza. Cheapest tix are Thursday, most expensive are Saturday, maybe. Or market it as a 3-day cage match for all the marbles. Want some sunshine? Go outside to the plaza for some Soundsport or other festivities on Friday; we'll see you back in the stadium on Saturday. Turning finals into an XX-corps contest -- not just a top-12 affair -- could be a boon to ticket sales, possibly. It would have its own buzz that would provide its own kind of marketing mojo. Fans love drum corps. An xx-corps finals is more drum corps. It's not automatic that it would undermine the week's total take at the gate.

[C.Holland]

Quarters is the day that everyone gets their shot from the Blue Saints to the Blue Devils.

Semis is the day of refinement and establishment of voting corps for the coming season.

Finals is the day that the 12 flagship corps for that season throw everything out on the field and cut their legacy.

You and I are going to disagree, this is clear, but when you put everyone on saturday, you've given the audience no reason to purchase tickets for thursday and friday. If you split them to do half on thurs and half on friday, and then the full lineup on saturday, you've given people a reason to buy tickets now.

But to run the same number of groups all three days in a row, will make people spend more time at the pool, and less time at the stadium and less money on the broadcast. Fans love drum corps, but fans love a storyline as well. Will Troop make the cut, will Colts knock someone out, will Pioneer make that cut? Will Legends do a repeat of last season and make semis?

You take that storyline away, you've removed butts from your seats.

Edited May 26, 2016 by C.Holland

[2muchcoffeeman]

There's elimination only at finals because..um.. it's finals! It's the end of the season and the format is designed to reward the corps who achieve the highest level of excellence. Of course you don't have finals mid-season.

So maybe we should stop giving out medals to the top 3. After all -- it just reinforces that exclusivity.

Sorry -- you can't have it both ways. Either it's competitive and some units advance. Or it's feel-good we're all winners and let's all sing kumbaya.

What's the point of having 3 shows in Indy if everyone competes every night? Might as well just have a single show and end it there. Highest score wins.

Instead DCI (and most other forms of competition) use an elimination tournament to find the champion.

I already addressed these specious arguments here.

You put X corps on a field. Highest score wins. What's not competitive about that? What is "kumbaya" about that?

We're not talking about the value of competition. All of us who love drum corps stipulate to its importance. So let's stop with the "kumbaya" fallacy, shall we?

We're talking about competitive method, and the way the current method contributes to a general sclerosis of the rankings. If the objective is more competitive fluidity, re-examining the "finals culture" is one place to take a look, imo.

Fact is, even Finals is not an "elimination tournament." The elimination idea requires that a field ultimately narrow to two opponents. Since 1972, DCI has allowed 12 corps on the field to fight it out for No. 1. That's not "elmination." Instead that is -- as someone once said -- "You put X corps on the field. Highest score wins."

The only variable left to argue over is the number of corps allowed into that fight. My contention is that by restricting it artificially, we help create an artificial immobility in the rankings. It's not the only cause, for sure, but it is part of the cause, I believe.

[2muchcoffeeman]

Quarters is the day that everyone gets their shot from the Blue Saints to the Blue Devils.

Semis is the day of refinement and establishment of voting corps for the coming season.

Finals is the day that the 12 flagship corps for that season throw everything out on the field and cut their legacy.

Yeah, I get that, and as a fan I even enjoy it. But the whole point here is that it also might be doing a measure of damage: locking corps into rankings and tilting the field heavily against the 19-25 corps -- even if they have the best staffs and design money can buy.

It changes the nature of the game. Only corps locked in to the top 12 are granted the opportunity to "throw everything on the field." From the point of view of the member who has competitive ambitions, It changes the nature of the activity. It become less about competition on the field, and more about retiring from the activity with the highest-ranking corps jacket possible. The true game is not the performance on the field, but the contract won in November.

fans love a storyline as well. Will Troop make the cut, will Colts knock someone out, will Pioneer make that cut?

They sure do; agreed. My point is that there is a different story they would love just as much: Will Troop beat Crossmen? Will Colts overtake them both? They will love the story of where each corps finishes on the number line on a finals-night, there's-no-tomorrow contest every bit as much as they currently love the story of who is permitted to pass through an artificially configured funnel. And with all corps on the field on a Saturday, they will have a greater number of stories to engage with.

Edited May 26, 2016 by 2muchcoffeeman

[C.Holland]

I already addressed these specious arguments here.

You put X corps on a field. Highest score wins. What's not competitive about that? What is "kumbaya" about that?

We're not talking about the value of competition. All of us who love drum corps stipulate to its importance. So let's stop with the "kumbaya" fallacy, shall we?

We're talking about competitive method, and the way the current method contributes to a general sclerosis of the rankings. If the objective is more competitive fluidity, re-examining the "finals culture" is one place to take a look, imo.

Fact is, even Finals is not an "elimination tournament." The elimination idea requires that a field ultimately narrow to two opponents. Since 1972, DCI has allowed 12 corps on the field to fight it out for No. 1. That's not "elmination." Instead that is -- as someone once said -- "You put X corps on the field. Highest score wins."

The only variable left to argue over is the number of corps allowed into that fight. My contention is that by restricting it artificially, we help create an artificial immobility in the rankings. It's not the only cause, for sure, but it is part of the cause, I believe.

You're right. They're competing for the payouts next season, the ability to vote as a full member corps, and the option to perform for the better, larger crowd.

by taking that away you've killed the tickets sold, concessions sold, and merch sold over the course of the week. There is no longer a reason to take off of work on thursday or friday when everything is on saturday.

Good job killing the demand by creating a surplus of supply.

[C.Holland]

Yeah, I get that, and as a fan I even enjoy it. But the whole point here is that it also might be doing a measure of damage: locking corps into rankings and tilting the field heavily against the 19-25 corps -- even if they have the best staffs and design money can buy.

It changes the nature of the game. Only corps locked in to the top 12 are granted the opportunity to "throw everything on the field." From the point of view of the member who has competitive ambitions, It changes the nature of the activity. It become less about competition on the field, and more about retiring from the activity with the highest-ranking corps jacket possible. The true game is not the performance on the field, but the contract won in November.

If 19-(insert arbitrary number) want to get better, they need to fund the machine. Design more effective and challenging shows, hire staff that create an amazing atmosphere of learning, give their membership a better experience so they return year after year, and give them reasons to come back and help build that family environment.

[DrumManTx]

You're right. They're competing for the payouts next season, the ability to vote as a full member corps, and the option to perform for the better, larger crowd.

by taking that away you've killed the tickets sold, concessions sold, and merch sold over the course of the week. There is no longer a reason to take off of work on thursday or friday when everything is on saturday.

Good job killing the demand by creating a surplus of supply.

I would definitely be less inclined to go to prelims of semis if I could see everyone Saturday. Edited May 26, 2016 by DrumManTx

[2muchcoffeeman]

Good job killing the demand by creating a surplus of supply.

I'm dubious. DCI has already demonstrated, by adding Thursday to the lineup when before it was only Friday and Saturday, that supply could be added without hurting the bottom line. I'll need more evidence before I assume adding some corps to a show that already is on the calendar will kill the golden goose. We're not talking about adding another date; we're talking about adding performers to a bill that already is on the schedule.