84BDsop Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Vance....what's the pricing on the sop vs a comparable trumpet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Vance....what's the pricing on the sop vs a comparable trumpet? Contact me via facebook. My actual direct price is much lower than MSRP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 It would seem that these are merely cornets... being called Bb sopranos. I have always wondered this... why not just use cornets? Or better yet, why not use cornets and trumpets... Or even better better yet yet... why not use trumpets, cornets AND flugel horns as the top end of the choir... slap the leads on cylindrical trumpets, put the mids on conical cornets, and put the lowers or the lead alto line on flugels. Seems like this would be a very desirable configuration for a group like Phantom, or Crown... maybe Cadets. Heck, why not throwing in a few F tubas on the upper tuba split while you're at it as a bridge from the baritones/euphs to the basses? So many good instruments out there to add to the continuum of the choir. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 It would seem that these are merely cornets... being called Bb sopranos. I have always wondered this... why not just use cornets? Or better yet, why not use cornets and trumpets... Or even better better yet yet... why not use trumpets, cornets AND flugel horns as the top end of the choir... slap the leads on cylindrical trumpets, put the mids on conical cornets, and put the lowers or the lead alto line on flugels. Seems like this would be a very desirable configuration for a group like Phantom, or Crown... maybe Cadets. Heck, why not throwing in a few F tubas on the upper tuba split while you're at it as a bridge from the baritones/euphs to the basses? So many good instruments out there to add to the continuum of the choir. Yea, yea, and add marching french horns to the middle voice; tromboniums to the low brass. I'm all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Yea, yea, and add marching french horns to the middle voice; tromboniums to the low brass. I'm all for it. You joke... but the G line with 3 valves in the 90's looked a lot more like what I am talking about. Sops, Flugels, Mellos, Etc. I don't think you have to violate the configuration of the bell-front, valve functioning design. but there may be merit to increasing the size differentiation and mixing up the cylindrical/conical configurations more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 You joke... but the G line with 3 valves in the 90's looked a lot more like what I am talking about. Sops, Flugels, Mellos, Etc. I don't think you have to violate the configuration of the bell-front, valve functioning design. but there may be merit to increasing the size differentiation and mixing up the cylindrical/conical configurations more. I'm dead serious. Both Frenchies and Tromboniums have been used by DCI corps in the past. I know Madison used tromboniums, and I know of frenchies that were being used as late as 1994. I believe that there's a bunch of creativity that can be had in the brass voicing. I love the Crossmen hornlines with flugels. I loved the old Phantom lines with frenchies. I'm all for this kind of innovation, and I've posted that on here several times, but it doesn't get much traction in discussion. I think this Bb soprano is a great idea that catches on... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcubierre Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Didn't 27th have a french horn solo in almost all of their shows back in the 80's? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) The designation of the 2 valves King Bugles. They had an entire line of horns in every possible voices. K10-Picoclo Soprano K20-Soprano K30-Flugelhorn K40-Alto K50-Mellophone K60-French Horn K70-Baritone K80-Euphonium K90-Contrabass (Tuba) I've always been intrigued by the classification between cornet, bugle and trumpet. You can study the photos below after reading the post. The conical shape of cornet starts at the mouthpiece receiver, slowly expends in diameter and stops near the tuning slide, it becomes cylindrical into the valve case, and restarts the conical expension at the beginning of the bell section, and the Trumpet is very similar, but have a slightly longer cylindrical pipes in between, but not by much (So the trumpet is conical). Cornet do have a smaller mouthpiece receiver so the starting point (diameter) is smaller, also the bell flare is usually narrower with diameter less that 4-7/8." Not all cornets have shepherd's crook so those models will sound more like a trumpet. The Shepherd's crook makes the sound darker. "Soprano" is nothing more than voice classification for bugles. The G soprano bugle is an extended large bore cornet with a trumpet receiver and a wider flare, bigger diameter bell, so you could say a soprano bugle is a cornet/trumpet hybrid. What made the G bugle, more specifically soprano so much more powerful than the trumpet lies in the nature of the design. The power of the sound is derives from the lead pipe; therefore, longer and uninterupted it is, bigger the punch. The two piston valves sopranos were the best bugle ever made. Without the third valve, the sound travels more freely with less energy lost. When they allowed the three valves version, the horns became stuffier and the volume of the horns actually dropped, what made the difference was the players. By the time it reach the 1990's, top 12 corps finally get to audition kids instead of taking anyone off the street who wants to march. The better players made the difference on the lost performance of the horns. You can also make the same claim with today's trumpets in drum corps. 2004 Cavaliers, 2008 Phantom Regiment, 2013 Crown were incredible lines, but they sound more like a great concert band than drum corps! I will not disclose what was done to make my horn work, because the last thing I want to do is having people steal my design. I have applied for registered trade mark for the name "Bb soprano" and the patent on the design, once my attorney gives me the go, I'll disclose what was done to achieve the result. Shepherd's Crook Cornet Standard Cornet James Morrison explaining the lead pipe. If you pay attention to the lead pipe on the trumpet featured in this video, you will see the length is similar to the G bugle.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3pEpk_4JZg Edited January 18, 2017 by Vance 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shofmon88 Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 It would seem that these are merely cornets... being called Bb sopranos. I have always wondered this... why not just use cornets? Or better yet, why not use cornets and trumpets... Or even better better yet yet... why not use trumpets, cornets AND flugel horns as the top end of the choir... slap the leads on cylindrical trumpets, put the mids on conical cornets, and put the lowers or the lead alto line on flugels. Seems like this would be a very desirable configuration for a group like Phantom, or Crown... maybe Cadets. Heck, why not throwing in a few F tubas on the upper tuba split while you're at it as a bridge from the baritones/euphs to the basses? So many good instruments out there to add to the continuum of the choir. I've wondered why voices have been disappearing from DCI as well. there's been a distinct trend towards minimalism. The latest has been the elimination of the baritone/euphonium split (I'm looking at you BD). I feel like a lot of richness has been lost with this. My assumption is that this is due to two primary reasons: money and intonation. I'm sure it costs more to buy a diverse hornline, and I would bet not many schools or other corps are interested in buying a used flugelhorn line. Keeping a diversity of instruments in tune would be trickier as well, yet here we are adding trombones and french horns (which are notoriously hard to get in tune as a section) for more color to the sound. I love listening to Crossmen's 2004 hornline. Those flugelhorns add richness to the high brass sound. F tubas would be neat to hear, but may be a bit harder to justify. I hope the Bb sopranos catch on as well, and corps start adding voices back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) Phantom Regiment started the trend of dropping the baritone during the mid 2000's. BD did that after dropping Dynasty and went with Selmer/King in 2009. I suspect the King baritone is not that good so they didn't want to develop a new one. If I remember correctly, SCV did not use euph last year, which was weird. The decision is some what mysterious...lol But the top 6 corps don't pay for their horns, so it's not a money issue. There will be a new learning curve for anyone who wants to my Bb soprano, most of the kids have never seeing or touch a bugle, or play a large bore trumpet, so it will take a little time for them get use to it. Edited June 2, 2016 by Vance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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