shofmon88 Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) I can imagine the learning curve for the Bb soprano is better than a G bugle though. I bought an Olds Ultratone II and a Kanstul Custom 3v soprano for fun. They're definitely a bit touchy, especially as you climb above the "G" on the staff. Edited June 2, 2016 by shofmon88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Contact me via facebook. My actual direct price is much lower than MSRP. Was just curious....I'm out of the starting-a-corps part of my life. Others might be interested, tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 The designation of the 2 valves King Bugles. They had an entire line of horns in every possible voices. K10-Picoclo Soprano K20-Soprano K30-Alto K40-Flugelhorn K50-Mellophone K60-French Horn K70-Baritone K80-Euphonium K90-Contrabass (Tuba) I've always being intrigued by the classification between cornet, bugle and trumpet. You can study the photos below after reading the post. The conical shape of cornet starts at the mouthpiece receiver, slowly expends in diameter and stops near the tuning slide, it becomes cylindrical into the valve case, and restarts the conical expension at the beginning of the bell section, and the Trumpet is very similar, but have a slightly longer cylindrical pipes in between, but not by much (So the trumpet is conical). Cornet do have a smaller mouthpiece receiver so the starting point (diameter) is smaller, also the bell flare is usually narrower with diameter less that 4-7/8." Not all cornets have shepherd's crook so those models will sound more like a trumpet. The Shepherd's crook makes the sound darker. "Soprano" is nothing more than voice classification for bugles. The G soprano bugle is an extended large bore cornet with a trumpet receiver and a wider flare, bigger diameter bell, so you could say a soprano bugle is a cornet/trumpet hybrid. What made the G bugle, more specifically soprano so much more powerful than the trumpet lies in the nature of the design. The power of the sound is derives from the lead pipe; therefore, longer and uninterupted it is, bigger the punch. The two piston valves sopranos were the best bugle ever made. Without the third valve, the sound travels more freely with less energy lost. When they allowed the three valves version, the horns became stuffier and the volume of the horns actually dropped, what made the difference was the players. By the time it reach the 1990's, top 12 corps finally get to audition kids instead of taking anyone off the street who wants to march. The better players made the difference on the lost performance of the horns. You can also make the same claim with today's trumpets in drum corps. 2004 Cavaliers, 2008 Phantom Regiment, 2013 Crown were incredible lines, but they sound more like a great concert band than drum corps! I will not disclose what was done because the last thing I want to do is have people take my horn and copy it. I have applied for registered trade mark for the name Bb soprano and the patent on the design, once my attorney gives me the go, I'll disclose what was done to achieve the result. Shepherd's Crook Cornet Standard Cornet Top (Andalucia Bb Soprano), bottom Marcinkiewicz. The more compact shepherd's crook push the bell about an inch further out, like a normal trumpet. James Morrison explaining the lead pipe. If you pay attention to the lead pipe on the trumpet featured in this video, you will see the length is similar to the G bugle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3pEpk_4JZg I really like the sound of what these horns could do and cannot wait to hear it and the marching tubas as well! I was looking at the Dynasty lines trumpets to compare bell size and borse sizes and found what the King line was missing: 010-M566 - Professional Dynasty USA Marching Bb Trombone 3-Valve Finish: Lacquer or Silver Bore: .500" (12.7mm) Bell: 8 1/2"" (216mm) Length: 19 1/4" (489mm) Weight: 4 lbs. (1.81kg) Okay, I'll stop beating a dead horse. I just throw out the trombonium and marching french horns for discussion every season or so. (Marching F French Horn) I really hope that quite a few corps continue to tweak their brass voicing, and the best place to start seems to be these Bb sopranos, and then maybe the rest of the brass choir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownBariDad Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Tromboniums: Why not use bass trumpets? I think they would be a little more available. I own one and really like the sound (as a trombone player) over the marching baritone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 What were the "alto" horns that the Crossmen used to use in the early '90s (in addition to mellophones, and I dont think they were flugels). Any plans to make a "modern" version of that horn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Ya know... I thought more about this, and I think there is a problem with my 'diverse choir' mentality. I recall my experiences where voice shifting, part splitting/inverting, cutting, doubling was a very fluid process through the course of the season. If you set 5 kids on trumpets, 8 on cornets, 10 on flugels, etc. on down the line... then you end up locking in the part splits for the duration of the program/season. This becomes a problem as adjustments have to be temporarily made in moments where the drill may demand more attention, or staging prohibits the choir from being well-organized. Example: "Ah crap... this neck-breaker drill move is going to take 6 kids out of ensemble sound for 16 counts... and they are all cornets!" Well, you can't divi up the parts for those 16 counts to other players that aren't on those instruments without changing the sound of the group. I suppose I can see why the choir is getting more narrow these days and special instruments are "featured" rather than consistently static. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 What were the "alto" horns that the Crossmen used to use in the early '90s (in addition to mellophones, and I dont think they were flugels). Any plans to make a "modern" version of that horn? They were something like this Kanstul Model 175 G Alto Bugle: I played one, well the Eb "efer" in college ( brass bands often call them tenor horns). From what I recall it DID sound a little bit different than a mellophone, but I don't recall what the difference was right now. I remember that has a mostly a conical bore. I'd like to hear one in a modern line for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) Tromboniums: Why not use bass trumpets? I think they would be a little more available. I own one and really like the sound (as a trombone player) over the marching baritone. I've never heard one, would be interesting! Lots of different looks for these things, but here is the most interesting to me: Edited June 2, 2016 by jjeffeory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachariaswmb Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 This is easily the best thread on DCP right now. Vance, you rock. I'm currently drooling over that rose brass bell. Would love a chance to try that puppy out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownBariDad Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 I've never heard one, would be interesting! Lots of different looks for these things, but here is the most interesting to me: Here's my old Holton Bass Trumpet. Found it on eBay many moons ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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