George Dixon Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 I know which corps this is and frankly it doesn't matter It's probably one you wouldn't expect, but yes - they are doing a little worse than expected competitively - and that can become a 'finger-pointing" type situation where the different captions etc start blaming one another and the attitude becomes toxic Small things like a simple corrective-comment in ensemble becomes second-guessed as an agenda or assignment of blame A strong leader and a full corps meeting, talking things out until no one has anything left to vent or say, is the only thing to do in such a situation. You have to let people fully and honestly vent their frustrations, feelings and disappointments. It helps a lot! I've been involved in these sorts of situations in professional organizations and a "safe-zone chat" is really the only way to diffuse it once it reaches a certain point... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Garfield? Yes? You called? Ohhh! You meant The Cadets! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) A few things... from experience. Drumcorps is not (as some suggest) an exercise in real life. It is just the opposite. It is a contractually controlled environment that requires specific attributes from its members, staff, and leadership. Members: Must be submissive, obedient, responsive and driven. Staff: Must be trustworthy, respectable, clear, fair, firm, professional... and they must project the outward appearance of unity in the mission. Leadership (including the drum major): Must be all of the things that the staff are... but also they should be feared. The idea of a family connection between all of these things begins and ends with the attitude and practice of loyalty. When any of these things are permitted to be violated (especially on multiple occasions)... then it all comes crashing down. Dissent is fine... so long as it is expressed in a way that doesn't violate the system. When I was marching we knew one year that our program was written at a level lower than our abilities... and we were ALL stuck with that. We each had a few lunchtime conversations about it, but we never violated our mandates to perform the show that we had, and the staff never blamed our score exclusively on our performance. And we all knew that open dissent would earn a one way, over night ticket home to the couch if we didn't work to the expectations of our contractual place in the system (this actually happened to one kid early in the season... thank goodness). My guess is that something was systemically missing from the start at this organization (and I think I can guess who it is... but won't say openly), and it all turned to rot. The director needs to set it straight... it may be too late at this point. Edited August 8, 2016 by cfirwin3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenoris4Jazz Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 A few things... from experience. Drumcorps is not (as some suggest) an exercise in real life. It is just the opposite. It is a contractually controlled environment that requires specific attributes from its members, staff, and leadership. Members: Must be submissive, obedient, responsive and driven. Staff: Must be trustworthy, respectable, clear, fair, firm, professional... and they must project the outward appearance of unity in the mission. Leadership (including the drum major): Must be all of the things that the staff are... but also they should be feared. The idea of a family connection between all of these things begins and ends with the attitude and practice of loyalty. When any of these things are permitted to be violated (especially on multiple occasions)... then it all comes crashing down. Dissent is fine... so long as it is expressed in a way that doesn't violate the system. When I was marching we knew one year that our program was written at a level lower than our abilities... and we were ALL stuck with that. We each had a few lunchtime conversations about it, but we never violated our mandates to perform the show that we had, and the staff never blamed our score exclusively on our performance. And we all knew that open dissent would earn a one way, over night ticket home to the couch if we didn't work to the expectations of our contractual place in the system (this actually happened to one kid early in the season... thank goodness). My guess is that something was systemically missing from the start at this organization (and I think I can guess who it is... but won't say openly), and it all turned to rot. The director needs to set it straight... it may be too late at this point. Sorry, but I strongly disagree with this take. What you just described was 3 of my last 4 employers, all of whom were Fortune 500 companies and the leaders in their industries. When people started violating their "roles" in the organization, sales went south, morale took a nosedive and profits dried up. Marching a corps is very much a lesson in real life. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) Sorry, but I strongly disagree with this take. What you just described was 3 of my last 4 employers, all of whom were Fortune 500 companies and the leaders in their industries. When people started violating their "roles" in the organization, sales went south, morale took a nosedive and profits dried up. Marching a corps is very much a lesson in real life.I'm trying to find where you are disagreeing with me? Apart from that... I can't imagine that employment anywhere is in itself a reflection of life. Each organizational experience is unique and drumcorps is VERY unique... it requires one to sell their soul.Edit: I read it again and I see your point... I suppose corps life is or can be similar to private sector business (as you are suggesting). But when I think of life lessons... I tend to think about how I function in society as a free individual. I am free to give dissent, free to look after my own interests first, free to cultivate alliances and relationships that some might not approve of, and free to separate my life from my employment. Drumcorps provides no such allowance for 24/7 of the season. Everyone must eat sleep and breath 'the show'. The drumcorps experience is an unusual cult experience. Edited August 8, 2016 by cfirwin3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) A few things... from experience. Drumcorps is not (as some suggest) an exercise in real life. It is just the opposite. It is a contractually controlled environment that requires specific attributes from its members, staff, and leadership. Members: Must be submissive, obedient, responsive and driven. Staff: Must be trustworthy, respectable, clear, fair, firm, professional... and they must project the outward appearance of unity in the mission. Leadership (including the drum major): Must be all of the things that the staff are... but also they should be feared. The idea of a family connection between all of these things begins and ends with the attitude and practice of loyalty. When any of these things are permitted to be violated (especially on multiple occasions)... then it all comes crashing down. Dissent is fine... so long as it is expressed in a way that doesn't violate the system. When I was marching we knew one year that our program was written at a level lower than our abilities... and we were ALL stuck with that. We each had a few lunchtime conversations about it, but we never violated our mandates to perform the show that we had, and the staff never blamed our score exclusively on our performance. And we all knew that open dissent would earn a one way, over night ticket home to the couch if we didn't work to the expectations of our contractual place in the system (this actually happened to one kid early in the season... thank goodness). My guess is that something was systemically missing from the start at this organization (and I think I can guess who it is... but won't say openly), and it all turned to rot. The director needs to set it straight... it may be too late at this point. I don't know what type of organization you work in, unless you are self-employed and have only yourself to answer to, but you described beautifully almost every type of interaction in most people's lives. "... contractually controlled environment that requires specific attributes from its members, staff, and leadership" Sounds like a job, or even a marriage, if you as me. Employees, spouses, even kids "...Must be submissive, obedient, responsive and driven." ...even if you consider those attributes apply to all members of a team. I would posit that "The idea of a family ... begins and ends with the attitude and practice of loyalty." It's loyalty that allows one to put up with the crap and hold the unit together, whether it's a family, a business, a club, or a group of friends who enjoy sharing time together. "Dissent is fine... so long as it is expressed in a way that doesn't violate the system."... is a notion that spurred and drives a significant part of every HR department, most families, governments, chess clubs... Friction between members, particularly at this point in the season, doesn't necessarily suggest something systemically wrong. In fact, it might simply signal frustration by high-producing people. Learning that others may not be as driven, or as talented, or as focused or even that others are more of those things than oneself is a cornerstone of being able to live and work with others. Edited August 8, 2016 by garfield 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 I'm trying to find where you are disagreeing with me? Apart from that... I can't imagine that employment anywhere is in itself a reflection of life. Each organizational experience is unique and drumcorps is VERY unique... it requires one to sell their soul. Edit: I read it again and I see your point... I suppose corps life is or can be similar to private sector business (as you are suggesting). But when I think of life lessons... I tend to think about how I function in society as a free individual. I am free to give dissent, free to look after my own interests first, free to cultivate alliances and relationships that some might not approve of, and free to separate my life from my employment. Drumcorps provides no such allowance for 24/7 of the season. Everyone must eat sleep and breath 'the show'. The drumcorps experience is an unusual cult experience. I'm glad you re-read, because the contradiction was in your post, not his. And, when you stop to realize that every MM is there of his/her own free will, and can leave at any moment of his/her own free will, the rationale of your last paragraph falls apart. Jim Jones ran a cult. Drum corps builds high-functioning adults who can transfer what they learn there to the rest of their lives to find success. They don't drink Kool-Aid except in the belief that their own, personal success is only limited by their attitude, drive, and desire to succeed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) . Edited August 8, 2016 by Fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) I'm glad you re-read, because the contradiction was in your post, not his. And, when you stop to realize that every MM is there of his/her own free will, and can leave at any moment of his/her own free will, the rationale of your last paragraph falls apart. Jim Jones ran a cult. Drum corps builds high-functioning adults who can transfer what they learn there to the rest of their lives to find success. They don't drink Kool-Aid except in the belief that their own, personal success is only limited by their attitude, drive, and desire to succeed. A cult is an entity defined by a unique (perhaps excessive) CULTure. This is why particular movies, music etc. can have a CULT following.But for more clarification... apparently needed... I work as a public school teacher in the state of New York. I am a professional that fulfills my duties to music education as I practice with a submissive subordinate attitude toward my immediate bosses and the school board... all while opposing their bad form (as needed) as a member of a union and a voting member of the community. My ultimate bosses (the Governor of the state of NY and the Commissioner of Education) are complete fools and I openly oppose and vote against them every chance that I get. In fact, the mere idea of music education advocacy requires the open act of resistance. This is how the system looks when it is working and it doesn't resemble drumcorps by any stretch. While some experiences will help young people to better understand the dynamics of employment, some of you sadly seem to imply that "working for the man" is the all encompassing fulfilment of life. Drumcorps is an odd experience... it's not normal. And it requires a dedication against one's own whims at a level and occurrence that is very little (if at all) like a microcosm of living. I'm not saying that it doesn't teach you great lessons... I'm just moderating the glorification of a wide application that doesn't exist. I'm also pointing out that unlike in real life (life... not work) there is NEARLY zero room for individualism and self advocacy of ideas in drumcorps. I don't think that a peace circle can help in this group's situation... nor do I think that venting sessions have a place in drumcorps. Edited August 8, 2016 by cfirwin3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 A cult is an entity defined by a unique (perhaps excessive) CULTure. This is why particular movies, music etc. can have a CULT following. But for more clarification... apparently needed... I work as a public school teacher in the state of New York. I am a professional that fulfills my duties to music education as I practice with a submissive subordinate attitude toward my immediate bosses and the school board... all while opposing their bad form (as needed) as a member of a union and a voting member of the community. My ultimate bosses (the Governor of the state of NY and the Commissioner of Education) are complete fools and I openly oppose and vote against them every chance that I get. In fact, the mere idea of music education advocacy requires the open act of resistance. This is how the system looks when it is working and it doesn't resemble drumcorps by any stretch. While some experiences will help young people to better understand the dynamics of employment, some of you sadly seem to imply that "working for the man" is the all encompassing fulfilment of life. Drumcorps is an odd experience... it's not normal. And it requires a dedication against one's own whims at a level and occurrence that is very little (if at all) like a microcosm of living. I'm not saying that it doesn't teach you great lessons... I'm just moderating the glorification of a wide application that doesn't exist. I'm also pointing out that unlike in real life (life... not work) there is NEARLY zero room for individualism and self advocacy of ideas in drumcorps. I don't think that a peace circle can help in this group's situation... nor do I think that venting sessions have a place in drumcorps. Of course every place is different and so are people BUT I can agree with this statement. I have seen these so called open sessions turn into nothing more than a screaming fest and hurt feelings as well as the opposite of people not talking. Now Im not saying that members shouldnt talk to piers, section leaders, staff, whatever is needed to get over something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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