2017 PREDICTIONS!

[Tobias]

11 minutes ago, Pit Dad said:

I agree that the staff that left was unplanned and there will be questions all winter until we see the product on the field.  The only things you can say so far is that the talent is still coming, they are getting the same message from staff that is there, and with Jim Coates still running the corps, we will have to hope that the staff he has hired will continue the traditions that have been built and build new ones that will continue to make the corps a contender every year.

Of course. I'm always optimistic. Many good things remain at Crown. Just saying how Cadets felt the same last year and got their ##### handed to them. A disaster of a season but Crown has been a stronger corps so can "endure" more and remain competitive. Cadets need to go out very strong this season otherwise they'll have a hard time a head of them for years. Tough to get back into top 3 after a prolonged drop. (Ask SCV, Cavaliers, Phantom). 

Edited February 19, 2017 by Tobias

[corpsband]

1 hour ago, Tobias said:

A. I'm not even sure who is replacing Keith Potter.

B. Drill probably no change. Jeff writes great drill but unless he adjusts his writing, probably no change here. Cadets were hardly getting accolades from the judging community in VA, GE Visual under Jeff and crew for the past several years. So we'll see.

C. Guard will come out strong and score well in beginning of season due to membership talent and reputation BUT if design lacks in any capacity, mid season as others catch up performance wise, you'll see a drop in guard ranking. 

None of A, B, C seem like an improvement. Maybe a draw or dip.

Positives:

Crown now attracts cream of the crop membership, will have an outstanding brass line and a good Percussion so even a 4-5th place design can still get them to place 3-4 at finals due to member talent and high performance levels. Obviously also depends on competiton too. We'll have to see what year 1 of a new staff brings. Learning curve for sure leaving them vulnerable to BD, Bloo and a surging SCV. 

 

 

Rick and Jeff are replacing Keith and Leon (who were both flirting with the chopping block).    As I said in another post,  while Keith no doubt had some successes he and MT also had some big misses.  And IMO Leon recycled stuff just a little too much.  I find it hard to believe that anyone would think Jeff would be a wash or downgrade.  He's been trying to plug visual design holes at Cadets single-handedly for far too long.  With an actual supportive design team around him,  I'm super excited to see what he's going to produce.  

We can't know what designs this team will turn out in the future but I have seen what Paramount has been doing. I've also seen what Klesch/Sacktig do working together.   I've seen what Joey's been doing.  Remember a design team is far more than one person.   I also think a huge part of Crown's success in the past has been the soundtrack that the visual guys were given to write a show to.   Gonna be very interesting to see what they do when it's no longer there.  In WGI you just need someone to mix the tape for you;  in drum corps someone's got to arrange it and actually play it live.  VERY different things.

I too was most worried about the guard caption.  But I think the team they've assembled will be far more than adequate.  There are some very talented writers there.  The fact that you thought they were "just a bunch of Crown alums" tells me a little about your evaluation.  You might be in for a bit of surprise in that caption.

I don't know what Crown will produce this season.  But I think many folks will be very surprised by how little this "shake up" will impact them competitively.  And if the design team finds good chemistry,  the entire fiasco could end up being a very large upgrade for them.   Time will tell.

As for BD , well duh.

Bloo ?  Who knows if they can reproduce the lightning in the bottle of 2016.  They'll have to get a whole lot cleaner though.  Everyone's been watching those videos and seeing what they missed.  They won't get a pass on dirt this time around.  BD and Crown both would have beat them handily without the magic that show delivered. 

SCV?  Meh.  How anyone can be excited by that four seasons show s beyond me.  It showed a total lack of creativity to me.  They aren't pushing boundaries on any front design-wise (except perhaps perc).  IMO the hype here on DCP is just people who miss seeing them compete for a medal.  I miss that too. But they were trend setters when they did that -- and they certainly aren't now.  They'd better bring a fresh idea to the field or I suspect they will be back in 5th or 6th again.  Cavies and Cadets won't be sitting still.  And BK is hungry to move up.

[Tobias]

17 minutes ago, corpsband said:

Rick and Jeff are replacing Keith and Leon (who were both flirting with the chopping block).    As I said in another post,  while Keith no doubt had some successes he and MT also had some big misses.  And IMO Leon recycled stuff just a little too much.  I find it hard to believe that anyone would think Jeff would be a wash or downgrade.  He's been trying to plug visual design holes at Cadets single-handedly for far too long.  With an actual supportive design team around him,  I'm super excited to see what he's going to produce.  

We can't know what designs this team will turn out in the future but I have seen what Paramount has been doing. I've also seen what Klesch/Sacktig do working together.   I've seen what Joey's been doing.  Remember a design team is far more than one person.   I also think a huge part of Crown's success in the past has been the soundtrack that the visual guys were given to write a show to.   Gonna be very interesting to see what they do when it's no longer there.  In WGI you just need someone to mix the tape for you;  in drum corps someone's got to arrange it and actually play it live.  VERY different things.

I too was most worried about the guard caption.  But I think the team they've assembled will be far more than adequate.  There are some very talented writers there.  The fact that you thought they were "just a bunch of Crown alums" tells me a little about your evaluation.  You might be in for a bit of surprise in that caption.

I don't know what Crown will produce this season.  But I think many folks will be very surprised by how little this "shake up" will impact them competitively.  And if the design team finds good chemistry,  the entire fiasco could end up being a very large upgrade for them.   Time will tell.

As for BD , well duh.

Bloo ?  Who knows if they can reproduce the lightning in the bottle of 2016.  They'll have to get a whole lot cleaner though.  Everyone's been watching those videos and seeing what they missed.  They won't get a pass on dirt this time around.  BD and Crown both would have beat them handily without the magic that show delivered. 

SCV?  Meh.  How anyone can be excited by that four seasons show s beyond me.  It showed a total lack of creativity to me.  They aren't pushing boundaries on any front design-wise (except perhaps perc).  IMO the hype here on DCP is just people who miss seeing them compete for a medal.  I miss that too. But they were trend setters when they did that -- and they certainly aren't now.  They'd better bring a fresh idea to the field or I suspect they will be back in 5th or 6th again.  Cavies and Cadets won't be sitting still.  And BK is hungry to move up.

Ok. You witness what's going on, Im in the dark so speculation here. As I said, Crown can absorb changes because they're a strong corps with few misfires (2014) and that was still a great show. On paper, I see concerns but if you're going to camp and hearing things, my argument is moot. 

Hoping Cadets have some momentum too. They've really fizzled out at the season's end after 2011. Some strong shows but something always missing.

As far as Jeff, don't get me wrong, I think he's brilliant, a great guy and I love his stuff. My concern is, how much is drill actually rewarded today. I can't tell you one wow visual moment in a BD show (perennial winners), I remember ramps in Bloo's show. It's staging and guard now, not Zpulls, rotating crosses like BITD. Visual experiences, yes, but not wow expansive drills meshing into different forms. That's the era I grew up in and still prefer but the judges don't. I realized the change in 2010 when I first saw BD show and wondered what happened to that great corps, so sad and then they won with that show. First time I realized the activity was leaving me behind but surely I digress. 

Edited February 19, 2017 by Tobias

[corpsband]

2 minutes ago, Tobias said:

Ok. You witness what's going on, Im in the dark so speculation here. As I said, Crown can absorb changes because they're a strong corps with few misfires (2014) and that was still a great show. On paper, I see concerns but if you're going to camp and hearing things, my argument is moot. 

Hoping Cadets have some momentum too. They've really fizzled out atbghe season's end after 2011. Some strong shows but something always missing.

I guess we'll see. 

You're argument's not moot.  I just see potential.  It's still unrealized.  Heck maybe Jeff Sacktig has nothing left in the tank.  I seriously doubt that but it's possible.  And maybe the 2017 show idea is just terrible.  We haven't seen anything yet.  So we do need to wait and see.  I just think they've come through the "shake up" in far better shape than most (including me!)  expected.   

[George Dixon]

5 minutes ago, corpsband said:

You're argument's not moot.  I just see potential.  It's still unrealized.  Heck maybe Jeff Sacktig has nothing left in the tank.  I seriously doubt that but it's possible.  And maybe the 2017 show idea is just terrible.  We haven't seen anything yet.  So we do need to wait and see.  I just think they've come through the "shake up" in far better shape than most (including me!)  expected.   

On the surface I agree

We'll know for sure in a few months once we see the show on the field and its response

I honestly think BOTH Cadets & Crown came thru their shakeups "better than expected" so perhaps we'll see a little less stale and a little more fresh and new

[phd-student-TTU]

7 hours ago, corpsband said:

No doubt it can happen. IMHO that drop can be laid entirely at the feet of the visual design.  Potter/Townsend thought they had a good idea (the tramps) and could "figure out" how to make it all work during ST / early season.  Yeah well we know how that worked out.  Talent-wise they were fine in 2014.  So bad design choices can crash you fast.  In fact IMO all of Crown's "misses"  have been design-related not performance-related.  (But what about percussion? Yeah it's has held them back but I don't think it was a major factor in the 4th/5th place shows). ((And yes -- this is all relative!  Even in the "miss" years,  Crown has been finishing extremely well)).

Too bad they mostly blamed the kids for the show not working. 

[corpsband]

Just now, phd-student-TTU said:

Too bad they mostly blamed the kids for the show not working. 

egos.  well those are someone else's problem now.  

i dont think the kids have ever dropped them out of the top 3.  every time they were 4 or 5 it was vis design goofs.

[DrumManTx]

1 minute ago, corpsband said:

egos.  well those are someone else's problem now.  

i dont think the kids have ever dropped them out of the top 3.  every time they were 4 or 5 it was vis design goofs.

[DrumManTx]

Ignore prior.  Stupid phone won't lemme insert funny picture of eggos.  

:(

[BRASSO]

1 hour ago, phd-student-TTU said:

Too bad they mostly blamed the kids for the show not working. 

 The  Townshend/ May went to Carolina Crown in 2003. For historical perspective, Carolina Crown was a 16th place Corps in 2002.

 In 2003, CC moved up  6 positions in 1 season to 10th.....  and 7th in 2004. Over the next 11 seasons, Crown had 7 top 5 finishes, 4 medalist seasons, and 1 Championship. I don't ever recall in the last 14 seasons anyone ever accusing Townshend/ May or Potter ( who came to CC in  2009 ) of " blaming the kids " at Carolina Crown for a " show not working ".  These 3 over the last decade or so did not just work with CC... they worked with other Corps, other scholastic MB's and lots of Guards. Not once were any of them tagged with " blaming their performers " for anything that might not have reached expectations. ( mostly, they've met, or exceeded expectations wherever they have gone). Townshend, lest we forget, was also the Program Coordinator for the 2016 Academy show program that was both highly popular, as well as one that catapulted this Corps into its 1st Finalist placing Corps in its history. Its quite curious then to hear such vocal criticisms of these fine educators coming now from the Carolina Crown Camp. For the past 14  seasons, we heard nothing out of the CC camp except except how great people, and what great  educators they are. The same thing we've heard everywhere they have gone both inside and outside of CC the last 25 years. Question then, ... when CC finished in 16th place in 2002,( the year before these staffers helped turn it around at CC in a major way,) did the previous design staff at CC " blame the kids "  for.. " the show not working ".. resulting in a 16th place finish for Carolina Crown ?

Edited February 19, 2017 by BRASSO