garfield Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 This video reminds me of a podcast interview with Gino Cipriani about effective full ensemble rehearsals....talking about the biggest mistake that many groups make is putting the DR. Beat on the drum majors podium... Absolutely. If there were ever a reason to kill off that evil black box, this is it, IMO. Visual cueing is the only effective Dr. Beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv4corps Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 Go on, Dr. Nye, explain the science while I wait... FWIW - Bill Nye doesn't even have a doctorate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 FWIW - Bill Nye doesn't even have a doctorate! neither does Garfield. So they are even in this debate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv4corps Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 I was the BD timpanist in 1981 & 82. Mike Moxley (BD's drill designer at the time) told me at one point during the 82 season was that the real motive behind the creation of the off field pit was because the visual designers wanted use of that prime real estate in the front part of the field. Drill design for marching mallets and timps back then mainly consisted of having them stay upfront and that consequently occupied a good portion of the "stage" between the 35's yd lines. Grounding the timps (1980 was first time for BD) took up the center part that valuable space as well. By moving the grounded percussion off the field it opened up that space to the design team, and for BD in 82 that meant great staging for featuring our winged dream girl color guard. Oh, and of course, seeing that there is a BD hornline in the equation it naturally meant more room to bring more lead soprano's down front and plant them on the 50 yd line . This is exactly the type of evolution I could only assume happened out of needs/wants over time. Pretty interesting IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 This is exactly the type of evolution I could only assume happened out of needs/wants over time. Pretty interesting IMO. Previous post to yours mentions Bill Nye. Now you cite evolution. This thread might just become very political. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleran Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) Go on, Dr. Nye, explain the science while I wait... Garfield - I'm not a front ensemble guy, but I THINK what he might be referring to is line of sight. When playing, a marimba player's head might be angled down slightly, to bring the keyboard into the best possible view. During that time (i.e while they are playing), it might be impossible to also view the drum major who is high on a podium directly in front of them. For analogy, look down at your keyboard while you type on your computer and try to see the space directly above your top of your computer monitor - it's difficult if not impossible. Only on breaks when they step back, straighten their backs, can they look up and see the DM. That's my guess, anyway, as to what he might be getting at. Edited August 31, 2016 by Eleran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Bad listening environments caused by staging - leading cause of ensemble problems since 1982. ;) Corrected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Garfield - I'm not a front ensemble guy, but I THINK what he might be referring to is line of sight. When playing, a marimba player's head might be angled down slightly, to bring the keyboard into the best possible view. During that time (i.e while they are playing), it might be impossible to also view the drum major who is high on a podium directly in front of them. For analogy, look down at your keyboard while you type on your computer and try to see the space directly above your top of your computer monitor - it's difficult if not impossible. Only on breaks when they step back, straighten their backs, can they look up and see the DM. That's my guess, anyway, as to what he might be getting at. Absolutely agree. But this focus on their keys would also prevent them from syncing time with their fellow FE members, would it not? Use your analog: Focus on your keyboard, swing your head from side to side as you envision hitting the next notes or octaves, and see it you can effectively see your neighbor 15 feet away. Is "pulsing" to keep time really effective, or is it visual choreography? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleran Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Absolutely agree. But this focus on their keys would also prevent them from syncing time with their fellow FE members, would it not? Use your analog: Focus on your keyboard, swing your head from side to side as you envision hitting the next notes or octaves, and see it you can effectively see your neighbor 15 feet away. Is "pulsing" to keep time really effective, or is it visual choreography? No, I'm not trying to defend pulsing, emoting, etc., and I agree that even peripheral vision will be strained to see the fellow front ensemble musicians to any great extent (though possibly the bodily pulsing does get picked up peripherally, though I doubt the emoting does). Just trying to comment on the biological aspect of the way human eyes are set (peripheral vision being greater than vertical vision, especially when eyes focused downwards on keyboards.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbaManiac Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 (edited) Go on, Dr. Nye, explain the science while I wait... Light moves faster than sound; when the front ensemble watches the same drum major as the corps (specifically drumline who is the real center of pulse) which moves around the field at constantly changing distances from the drum major, the sound that the front ensemble produces reaches the stands earlier than the sound of the rest of the corps, creating ensemble tearing. With the exception of specific cue points, or situations where the corps is compacted to the front of the field (which is almost never), the FE listens to the corps and plays with what they hear, or more specifically the center of the FE listens to the drumline, and communicates tempo out to the rest of the FE (through bobbing and choreographed preparatory movements) so that they are all using the same tempo source, and not individually evaluating the sound that they are hearing from their own stationary point, which may be 20 yards away from another FE member. A FIXED sound source and a MOVING sound source can not use the same fixed sight driven communication, when the distance from that source can vary so greatly, as the time that it takes the sound of the corps to reach the front ensemble will be constantly changing depending on staging....because science. Edited September 1, 2016 by MarimbaManiac 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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