E3D Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Ghost said: LESS FILLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3D Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Stu said: As it applies to DCI… the point I was making was that while fans who are musicians would likely find the current SCV Percussion under the direction of Paul Rennick as being one of the best at entertainment, most non-musician fans would likely find a group with, albeit qualitative, antic-based air-drumming forms of Stomp way more entertaining. And I venture to say that the ratio of non-musician fans to fans who are musicians in DCI also reflects the ratio of fans outside of DCI who attend pop concerts. I don't think you understand or capture what the DCI fan is. Just my opinion. Stomp? WTF ? Really? I thought I was dealing with a adult who understands musicians not pop crapola. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Just now, E3D said: I don't think you understand or capture what the DCI fan is. Just my opinion. Stomp? WTF ? Really? I thought I was dealing with a adult who understands musicians not pop crapola. Been a part of DCI WC top 12 as a performer, staff member, board member, and fan for well over 30 years; and have toured as a professional jazz and rock musician for over 20 years. And I can tell you that over those years most fans in the audience, even at DCI shows, are not musicians and they are way more entertained by pop culture than artistic culture. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3D Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Just now, Stu said: Been a part of DCI WC top 12 as a performer, staff member, board member, and fan for well over 30 years; and have toured as a professional jazz and rock musician for over 20 years. And I can tell you that over those years most fans in the audience, even at DCI shows, are not musicians and they are way more entertained by pop culture than artistic culture. well with all those credentials behind you then go and run young buck. I beg to differ because DCI is not a populist entertainment and the folks there know drum corps when they hear and see it. Obviously your on Pluto and I'm on Mars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 1 minute ago, E3D said: well with all those credentials behind you then go and run young buck. I beg to differ because DCI is not a populist entertainment and the folks there know drum corps when they hear and see it. Obviously your on Pluto and I'm on Mars. People know drum corps when they see it? Really? While I am not against an organization evolving, there certainly is an ever growing number of DCI fans today who do not see the current situation with amplification and the push for electric guitars, bass guitars, electric pianos, wireless voice mics, and stage productions as 'Drum Corps' at all. Moreover, the current major voting members in DCI also have an intense desire today in moving DCI into the populist entertainment atmosphere. I say this as someone who is not only in the stands as a fan, but as someone who also is aware of what is transpiring within the staff/board side of DCI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Stu said: Your opinion is that herd mentality is bad, and to show that judges think for themselves you do not want them to have consistency in the way they evaluate observable criteria because consistency in observation would be herd mentality. I got it. When you get to the level of excellence we see in the WC corps recently, I'd think we would see more variability. That's all I said Slu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Tobias said: When you get to the level of excellence we see in the WC corps recently, I'd think we would see more variability. That's all I said Slu. You typed, “I believe there is a herd mentality amongst the judges with the head of the herd telling the calves which corps to dump as they start to solidify the top 3.” So, which is more plausible of an interpretation of that statement? A) This means that when you get to the level of excellence we see in the WC corps recently, you would think we would see more variability. or.... B) You called the DCI judges a bunch of cattle; claiming that most of them are calves mooing on command from some bull leader to dump on certain corps, and all of them milling around with just the mentality of a herd. Yep, you sure are right on this one I tell ya, and I stand corrected. The correct interpretation of what you actually typed about herds and calves is A. Okey-Dokey. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vdad76 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 12 hours ago, Tobias said: My point is with drum corps scoring so heavily skewed in the subjective caption of GE, I'd expect to see less "we all love that show" scoring. More independent thinkers judging. The senior judges (George O etal) tend to create the riptide mid season and the rest of the minds tend to get dragged into that thinking. I never said collusion, but rather a subjective momentum. Maybe it's unavoidable, but by 2-3 weeks into July, you start witnessing shifts in rankings as opinions are starting to become a bit too organized in such a supposedly subjective system. My point would be that maybe George Oliviero should be listened to. He is one of the best and great minds in the judging community and should not be discounted in any way, shape or form. I've known the man for a long time, had many conversations with him about DCI, WGI, music, the Arts, etc., he has experience that 90% of the current judging community doesn't have. I do not think, however, that he holds such a sway over anyone who adjudicates to just follow him over the cliff. Most people who judge have their own opinions and it does bias them somewhat, but the training that you receive as an adjudicator is to take those personal things and use them only as a part of the tools you come into any show. Corps are where they are in scoring, because of the points gained through working towards perfection in whatever caption you adjudicate, including General Effect. Yes, it is more subjective, but you don't seen an incredibly sloppy group outdueling one whose show is clean. It has to entertain and part of that entertainment is a well thought out musically exciting show that is equally balanced by the visuals put forth. Both of those things must be clean for the scores to reach the higher end boxes - if you can't tell what is going on musically or decipher the visual that is interpreting the music, then you are not having much of an effect on anyone! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 43 minutes ago, Stu said: You typed, “I believe there is a herd mentality amongst the judges with the head of the herd telling the calves which corps to dump as they start to solidify the top 3.” So, which is more plausible of an interpretation of that statement? A) This means that when you get to the level of excellence we see in the WC corps recently, you would think we would see more variability. or.... B) You called the DCI judges a bunch of cattle; claiming that most of them are calves mooing on command from some bull leader to dump on certain corps, and all of them milling around with just the mentality of a herd. Yep, you sure are right on this one I tell ya, and I stand corrected. The correct interpretation of what you actually typed about herds and calves is A. Okey-Dokey. I don't think DCI judges are cattle. No artistic license allowed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 4 hours ago, Tobias said: I don't think DCI judges are cattle. No artistic license allowed? Even if we allow for ‘artistic license’ with your herd/calves posting, it still claims that the DCI judges have no personal and individual integrity but instead think and act as a corrupt group by collectively agreeing to push ahead placements of some corps while purposely dumping other select corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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