ouooga Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 12 minutes ago, Stu said: I am still an advocate that if the heat index on any day is over 100*, no matter where a corps is rehearsing, the corps should extremely limit day-time outside rehearsals; and if the heat index is over 110* the corps should not rehearse outside at all. And if the average temp, according to the heat index, of a location averages over 100* in the months of July and August, DCI should either schedule those locations in June, if heat index permits, or just not scheduled an event at that location. I'm not sure where Wolfgang pulled his data. I put the attached chart together using data from AreaVibes.com (I don't do a ton with weather data, would love another source if it's available). I didn't look at August because Texas nor Nevada would make sense for August with Finals in Indy. City Month Avg. Heat Index High Heat Index Houston, TX July 92 116.6 Dallas, TX July 88.4 120.3 San Antonio, TX July 89.8 121.7 Austin, TX July 87.5 119.3 Las Vegas, NV July 89.6 123.3 None of these have a July average of >100, and all have a high of >115. So from this, is Vegas now more viable, or do we cancel Texas moving forward? I'm assuming you'll stick to your guns and go with the latter, but not totally sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 26 minutes ago, ouooga said: I'm not sure where Wolfgang pulled his data. I put the attached chart together using data from AreaVibes.com (I don't do a ton with weather data, would love another source if it's available). I didn't look at August because Texas nor Nevada would make sense for August with Finals in Indy. City Month Avg. Heat Index High Heat Index Houston, TX July 92 116.6 Dallas, TX July 88.4 120.3 San Antonio, TX July 89.8 121.7 Austin, TX July 87.5 119.3 Las Vegas, NV July 89.6 123.3 None of these have a July average of >100, and all have a high of >115. So from this, is Vegas now more viable, or do we cancel Texas moving forward? I'm assuming you'll stick to your guns and go with the latter, but not totally sure. This is where data has to be analyzed correctly. The Ave Heat index number on the left you are wanting to utilize is the average of the complete 24-hour cycle which is the daily high plus the daily low divide by two. This number would be the average heat index if a corps rehearsed outside at 3:00am as well as 3:00pm. And how could 89.6* be the average high during the day when all weather related web sites state that the daily high ambient temperature for July in Las Vegas, for example, is in the 106* range. The High Heat index on the right is what really matters to the subject at hand. It is the high indexes for each day of July added together and divided by 31. 'This' is the heat index which pertinent to the discussion at hand because it is the average heat index in the middle of the afternoon when corps actually rehearse; unless, of course, you want to claim that corps rehearse outside at 3:00am as well as 3:00pm. Edited March 31, 2017 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Stu said: This is where data has to be analyzed correctly. The Ave Heat index number on the left you are wanting to utilize is the average of the complete 24-hour cycle which is the daily high plus the daily low divide by two. This number would be the average heat index if a corps rehearsed outside at 3:00am as well as 3:00pm. The High Heat index on the right is what really matters to the subject at hand. It is the highs for each day of July added together and divided by 31. 'This' is the heat index which pertinent to the discussion at hand because it is the average heat index in the middle of the afternoon when corps actually rehearse; unless, of course, you want to claim that corps rehearse outside at 3:00am as well as 3:00pm. Well I'm glad I put both on there. Like I said, I don't do much with weather data and definitely don't know it as inside out as I do other datatypes. So can we use the HHI's I've included, or is there a better data source for this? I'm truly curious to know. It's as relevant to my side of the argument as yours to determine if these major cities in Texas have a similar heat index to Las Vegas (which, based on the right column, appears accurate to say). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, ouooga said: Well I'm glad I put both on there. Like I said, I don't do much with weather data and definitely don't know it as inside out as I do other datatypes. So can we use the HHI's I've included, or is there a better data source for this? I'm truly curious to know. It's as relevant to my side of the argument as yours to determine if these major cities in Texas have a similar heat index to Las Vegas (which, based on the right column, appears accurate to say). You said, I think, that you live in Vegas so you should know this: How many days are there in July where the heat index, let alone the ambient temperature,is 89.6* at 3:00pm? Or are the July days at 3:00pm closer to the 106* ambient temperature range with the heat index hotter than 106*? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Just now, Stu said: You said, I think, that you live in Vegas so you should know this: How many days are there in July where the heat index, let alone the ambient temperature,is 89.6* at 3:00pm? Or are the July days at 3:00pm closer to the 106* ambient temperature range with the heat index hotter than 106*? I feel confident I've never met an individual who knows the avg. heat index or avg. ambient temperature in a given month in their hometown (save maybe meteorologists). I, at least do not, and I've lived in Las Vegas 32 years. I know very little about weather data, which is why all my facts on Las Vegas weather thus far have been anecdotal or cited to a source. Yes, if I go outside in July in the afternoon (say 3pm) and it's not raining (Summer's our monsoon season) it's definitely going to be over 100. I don't know humidity, I assume low because desert, and I don't know how that factors into heat index or ambient. I can also say that any time I've been in Texas in July, it's definitely more humid than Las Vegas but feels about the same in terms of heat. Can you please provide a data source you trust that has a comparative figure for Texas and Las Vegas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ouooga said: I feel confident I've never met an individual who knows the avg. heat index or avg. ambient temperature in a given month in their hometown (save maybe meteorologists). I, at least do not, and I've lived in Las Vegas 32 years. I know very little about weather data, which is why all my facts on Las Vegas weather thus far have been anecdotal or cited to a source. Yes, if I go outside in July in the afternoon (say 3pm) and it's not raining (Summer's our monsoon season) it's definitely going to be over 100. I don't know humidity, I assume low because desert, and I don't know how that factors into heat index or ambient. I can also say that any time I've been in Texas in July, it's definitely more humid than Las Vegas but feels about the same in terms of heat. Can you please provide a data source you trust that has a comparative figure for Texas and Las Vegas? Research NOAA, Accuweather, Local Weather at local TV Station websites, etc, and you will get a better sense what the ambient temperature, as well as the heat index, is for each day, month, year for a particular location. But remember, it is the heat index from mid-morning to late-afternoon that is most important to the rehearsal schedules for corps. Edited March 31, 2017 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 34 minutes ago, Stu said: Research NOAA, Accuweather, Local Weather at local TV Station websites, etc, and you will get a better sense what the ambient temperature, as well as the heat index, is for each day, month, year for a particular location. But remember, it is the heat index from mid-morning to late-afternoon that is most important to the rehearsal schedules for corps. Alright, I've yet to find a source that can show a daytime-only avg. temperature for any city during a specific month, and in fact can't locate ambient temperature or heat index rankings on NOAA, Accuweather, or any local weather or tv station websites. Help is appreciated. I'd rather have the right data to continue this discussion. Here's a few links. Not sure if the search parameters will hold, they look good on my end but that might be cookie data holding it. Are ambient/heat index described by different terms? Las Vegas, July: Accuweather, Weather.com Houston, July: Accuweather, Weather.com San Antonio, July: Accuweather, Weather.com Open discussion please. If anyone can provide a source for comparative heat index or ambient temp, especially if we can pinpoint daytime hours, it would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 8 minutes ago, ouooga said: Alright, I've yet to find a source that can show a daytime-only avg. temperature for any city during a specific month, and in fact can't locate ambient temperature or heat index rankings on NOAA, Accuweather, or any local weather or tv station websites. Help is appreciated. I'd rather have the right data to continue this discussion. Here's a few links. Not sure if the search parameters will hold, they look good on my end but that might be cookie data holding it. Are ambient/heat index described by different terms? Las Vegas, July: Accuweather, Weather.com Houston, July: Accuweather, Weather.com San Antonio, July: Accuweather, Weather.com Open discussion please. If anyone can provide a source for comparative heat index or ambient temp, especially if we can pinpoint daytime hours, it would be appreciated. For example: click on the accuweather link, then click on a particular day, then look for the term ‘Real Feel’ for the daily high and that will be the Heat Index number for the high that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 (edited) Slight correction after doing a little math. The High Heat Index on the right side in the chart provided by Ouooga is the average of the highest recorded day registered each July. So for example, in Vegas there will likely be at least one day each July where the high index reaches 123.3* on that day. Edited April 1, 2017 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 4 hours ago, Stu said: I am still an advocate that if the heat index on any day is over 100*, no matter where a corps is rehearsing, the corps should extremely limit day-time outside rehearsals; and if the heat index is over 110* the corps should not rehearse outside at all. And if the average temp, according to the heat index, of a location averages over 100* in the months of July and August, DCI should either schedule those locations in June, if heat index permits, or just not scheduled an event at that location. If the contest was to be held in a government property or school in New York State while the temps were 95 or above, the show would be postponed until the temps lowered. Besides the breathing and dehydration problems already cited in this thread, the heat effect on the artificial turfs cause a burning sensation on the underside of the feet if the shoes are not made to counter this. Imagine the kneeling in spandex, the laying on the ground of current drill visuals, etc. DCI did postpone a Regional in St Louis in the outside stadium.in the late 80's due to this heat index struggle for MMs; the thermometer reading a foot above the artificial turf read something like 112+. The contest was eventually cancelled when evening weather exploded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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