Need help with BD Chop and Paste, Walk and Stand approach to design

[Cappybara]

18 minutes ago, Stu said:

Because for now there are still enough Empire State of Mind type programs to sustain the audience's entertainment engagement while they golf clap through Absurdity.  However, if designers do not head the advice of Ceserio to knock it off, things could begin another spiral .downwards.

Let me tell ya, there were absolutely no golf claps for Propaganda last year (which I know you took issue with as you've stated multiple times that the audience shouldn't be exposed to that). 

And again, I don't buy that at all. There is plenty of room in drum corps for educational shows just as there is for the highly entertaining ones. Like you said, it doesn't have to be an either this or that situation. Both types of shows can live in harmony like they are now and butts will still be put in seats. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Cappybara

[Cappybara]

3 minutes ago, HockeyDad said:

Do they present it at football stadiums with fancy marching bands?  No. I think that's Stu's point. Don't market it as one thing and present it as another. 

Why is the existence of a football field being used as proof that shows should be entertaining only? Where does DCI advertise themselves as an entity that aims only to entertain its audience? 

Here's their mission statement: 

"The mission of Drum Corps International is to bring the life-enriching benefits and enjoyment of marching music performing arts to more people worldwide. We do this by creating a stage for participating organizations to engage in education, competition, entertainment, and the promotion of individual growth."

 

Looking at DCI's "About" page on their website, here's the only general statement made regarding the "entertainment" of the audience:

"Through the annual DCI Tour and World Championships, Drum Corps International provides entertainment to millions through live performances and nationally-broadcast events. Drum Corps International is Marching Music's Major League™."

[mrk]

8 hours ago, Stu said:

What I am talking about is the desire many DCI and BOA artistic designers have had over the past ten years or so, likely for their own glory as Cesario just addressed at the meeting, in order to force 'education' upon the audience to progress their art form; as opposed to making the top priority entertainment.  And if a show design needs written explanation along with a pre-show tutorial lecture, not only directed toward educating the audience but also the adjudicators, that is widening the audience disconnect not fixing it.

1

As a high school student, I had never heard of Khachaturian. As I attended DCM/DCI shows in 1981, I was given a one-page libretto by Phantom Regiment to better understand their Spartacus show. Without the libretto, I was still entertained. With the libretto, I was entertained AND better educated. There have been some design choices over the years that no amount of education or explanation was going to result in me be entertained. That's okay, I'm certain others liked those shows. The flip side is the many more shows entertained me before I had the slightest clue about subtle nuances and/or the design team's intentions or motivations. Seems consistent with subjective reactions to most any art form - music, art, movies, literature, etc. Some things I like. Some I don't. Some things I'm willing to learn more about. Some things I'm not. As for "widening audience disconnect" - hasty generalization? 

Edited July 26, 2017 by mrk

[N.E. Brigand]

6 minutes ago, mrk said:

As a high school student, I had never heard of Khachaturian. As I attended DCM/DCI shows in 1981, I was given a one-page libretto by Phantom Regiment to better understand their Spartacus show. Without the libretto, I was still entertained. With the libretto, I was entertained AND better educated.

Ah, but 1981 was before Cesario set designers on the straight path of pure entertainment. The bad old days.

Edited July 26, 2017 by N.E. Brigand

[pudding]

The onus should never be on the audience to stretch or reach to "get" a show. If a corps wants to draw the audience in with an interesting show such that they will get more out of the show having been inspired to "read up" on the topic, then fine, but if the audience cannot follow what is happening on the field, then that is the designers' faults, not the audience's. 

[Stu]

3 hours ago, mrk said:

As a high school student, I had never heard of Khachaturian. As I attended DCM/DCI shows in 1981, I was given a one-page libretto by Phantom Regiment to better understand their Spartacus show.

 

3 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Ah, but 1981 was before Cesario set designers on the straight path of pure entertainment. The bad old days.

A) I actually have a copy of that libretto in a file.

B) I do believe that was the first cell which was conceived and has multipled over the years into the living story-telling organisms we have today.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Stu

[N.E. Brigand]

12 minutes ago, Stu said:

A) I actually have a copy of that libretto in a file.

B) I do believe that was the first cell which was conceived and has multipled over the years into the living story-telling organisms we have today.

So for most of DCI's history, drum corps has had a strain that includes more than just pure music and movement.

(And wasn't DCI founded the year after some people "drum corps died" because a couple corps had some of their guard in character costumes?)

[Jeff Ream]

9 hours ago, Fred Windish said:

EXACTLY!

This year, more than ever before, I sense corps are arranging to simply blurt out as many fast notes possible. This could be a "Carolina Crown Effect."  Let's also consider arrangements being re-done into bite-size pieces to better support body movements, equipment toss, and dance.

One thing I like most about this year's Blue Devils program is the (mostly) easy flow of solid jazz. Hat tip to Cadets for their Bernstein interpretations. Although Cadets have been under tighter control in terms of keeping original, successful pieces alone . . . .  to ensure their continued acceptance.

see the last 3 years i've found there to be more flowing melodic passages than in the past

[Jeff Ream]

9 hours ago, Stu said:

I guess that you missed the part where I acknowledge there are still wide variations in DCI show content; but the difference between bitd and now is the aspect of attempting to educate the audience instead of entertain them.

hello...Librettos handed out before the original Spartacus? Articles in DCN and DCW BITD going on about show stuff by designers?

 

it's always happened. quite frankly the last few years its been far better. Even if you didnt know a #### thing about Felini, you see movie cameras and went "oh weird movies". Boom. You totally project your feelings on what corps try to do instead of the fact the corps DO try to entertain. Who the hell wants to go out and not be liked? You dont sell souvies that way. You don't get people to drop a buck into your jar at the show.

 

( ok, maybe BK, only because their shows are so #### weird LOL)

[Jeff Ream]

9 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Again, if I'm a new fan who wants to know what the judges are looking for, there's no easy way for me to find that on DCI's site.

You're suggesting that if I listed to a bunch of podcasts, I'll start to pick it up over time. No doubt. But I can't use any search function on an audio recording.

I mean, can you, right now, in a minute or less, point me to where on DCI's website I can find the answer to "What is general effect?"

And if you can't, how can you claim it's easy to do so?

new fans ask. they go to the facebook page or twitter, which advertises well. friends guide them through. you totally underestimate what people can do for themselves to find information.

 

click this link. i hit the search button on dci's site, typed in general effect judging, sorted by date and boom.

 

 

http://www.dci.org/Search.dbml?q=general+effect+judging&s=ORDERDATE&db_oem_id=33500

Edited July 26, 2017 by Jeff Ream
corrected