Jeff Ream Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 8 hours ago, Stu said: The following was rather fun, and I challenge anyone to do this; but I mainly did it out of curiosity to test the differences in viewpoint between Jeff and myself. On Saturday evening I invited over a number of friends who like both music and sports and told them that I would provide them with some BBQ in exchange for watching an evening of videos along with voicing some commentary. They agreed… provided that the food was going to be stellar! Anyway, after they arrived and we began to chow down I turned on the 52” Flat Screen with surround sound and connected it to YouTube. Then the experiment began (note that while I did tell them this was an experiment, I did not give them any per-conceived hint whatsoever as to my own hypothesis). We watched some 1972 through 1976 DCI video excerpts, trying to just watch professional recorded shows when possible; and we also watched excerpts of DCI shows from 2012 through 2016. We then watched some 1972 through 1976 NFL excerpts, along with some 2012 through 2016 NFL coverage. (and by the way, the food did need to be stellar for them to do this willingly, if any of y'all want to try this!) Anyway, after that I asked everyone to provide some commentary based on what they had just watched and heard. DCI: Aside from the video and audio quality differences, they all noted some minor similarities between the two eras like brass, drums, flags, etc.... However, the overwhelming opinion from everyone was that while they realized they were watching DCI, the shows and designs were so vastly, massively, and immensely different from one era to the other it looked and sounded to them like the activity was morphing into something different than it was in the seventies. NFL: Again aside from the audio and video quality difference, there were some noted differences in types of play calls and some rule changes were commented on like the two point conversion and a few others. But in this case the overwhelming opinion was that they were certain that they were watching the exact same activity; that the NFL has not changed all that much in forty years, especially compared to DCI, and in fact, here is the real kicker, if it were not for the audio and video quality differences much of the early seventies action could have been mistaken as recent action. Doh!!! Anyway, this was just for fun to find out the opinions of other people and not to be claimed in any way shape or form as being fact. Comments from y’all are welcome; even those who will claim that I have too much time on my hands. Which, by the way, is a rather good song by Styx. Only if Tommy sings it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 4 hours ago, brichtimp said: BD's Bacharach show from 2011? was not an intellectual exercise...I think 'avg' viewers could enjoy the tuneful arrangements, etc. But the props screamed "extreme home makeover" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 4 hours ago, DrumCorpsRadio said: I have been to three shows in three different regions so far this year (Massillon, Ohio; Michigan City, Indiana; Pasadena, California) and did not find this to be true at all. In all three cases, I bought the best tickets available through the official show source and in all three cases I was surrounded by older crowds. In Indiana, I was smack in the middle of a section of about 10-15 long-time supporters of The Cavaliers, some sporting corps jackets back into the 1970s. Before the show and in-between corps, discussion was always about the history of the activity and reverence for both that history and the unbelievable performances being put on today. I found it incredibly refreshing. This is one of the main reasons why I set a budget for DCI attendance and plan my summer around it carefully, so that I can afford to sit in the seats where the majority of people are similar in their focus. Very few people pay the premium price without wanting to be 100% engaged in what is happening. As an aside, I have found that driving out of my region (New York metropolitan area) for shows is often cheaper even when factoring in a hotel stay to have this experience. The best available tickets in Ohio and Indiana, for example, where less than 1/3 the best available tickets for Clifton, NJ or Chester, PA. Show sponsor makes a huge difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 4 hours ago, DrumCorpsRadio said: Perhaps this is too narrow of a comparison or even the wrong one altogether. Was there a similar activity that was mostly niche in the early-mid 1970s and is now completely mainstream? Perhaps something like competitive cheerleading? I don't know, but it may not be the right comparison when the NFL was already in the national consciousness and with national media attention. You might not believe this but auto racing in general was a niche activity in the United States until 1979. Up to that point the only fans were the diehards that attended live events. The mass market media really did not care to cover events, and the only thing they did on TV was on occasion show a few race clips here or there ‘tape delayed and in a few segments’ typically on the ABC Wide World of Sports. However, that all changed in 1979. CBS was contracted by NASCAR to broadcast the 1979 Daytona 500 live flag to flag in February. It so happened that there was a severe winter storm in the northeast that weekend which caused most all people up and down the coast to be stuck inside watching TV, and remember this was at a time where there were only three stations to watch. The action kept people glued to the TV sets, but it was the last lap and post-race action of the 1979 Daytona 500 that got people hooked on NASCAR TV; look it up, it is very interesting. Anyway, from that point forward NASCAR went from being a mainly southern niche activity to the massive TV media sport it is today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 44 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: It's been on GE sheets for years. The problem was visual got away from referenceing the music So, it was determined that visual was overshadowing and overtaking music in the GE department. That is what I have been saying from the get-go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 47 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: Stuff is out there, but it's less..... what's the word.... blatant in talking down to people But design teams edifying the adjudicators so that they can understand the design is still a necessary component; that is my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 1 hour ago, MikeBD said: You always act like BD doesn't deserve to win. I can come up with many more examples where they were the best and didn't win. Heck in 08 where were you when they had the far tougher drill than Phantom? The real reason is you simply don't like them winning and don't like them at all. I am simply explaining why posts like these even exist. BD is polarizing like the Patriots are polarizing in the NFL or how the Yankees are polarizing in MLB. The reason why its even more frustrating in DCI is that there is no apples to apples comparison. BD approaches the activity in a different way. You are correct that I do not prefer that approach, but at the same time, I can appreciate the awesome concept in 2010 and the utter perfection in 2014, so it's not hate....its fatigue. BTW I didn't watch 08 since there was no show in FL and the fan network did not start until 09. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 44 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: Only if Tommy sings it Hmmmmm... DrumCorpsRadio complimented me on my willingness to occasionally change my opinion; does this little experiment with general sports fans have any impact on your staunch stance that NFL football has changed so much over the past forty years it is now immensely different today as compared to the early seventies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) 50 minutes ago, ContraFart said: I am simply explaining why posts like these even exist. BD is polarizing like the Patriots are polarizing in the NFL or how the Yankees are polarizing in MLB. The reason why its even more frustrating in DCI is that there is no apples to apples comparison. BD approaches the activity in a different way. You are correct that I do not prefer that approach, but at the same time, I can appreciate the awesome concept in 2010 and the utter perfection in 2014, so it's not hate....its fatigue. BTW I didn't watch 08 since there was no show in FL and the fan network did not start until 09. BD is a multiple winner because they are consistent, they have a loyal excellent staff, they always have excellent performers, they have a great business model, and they are brilliant at designing shows based on the way adjudicators interpret the sheets. It is in that last criteria that I personally have an issue. A design written specifically to the adjudicators and the sheets may get you the win, but it may also create discord and wide disconnect with a multitude of the paying audience if their engagement and entertainment desires are being seen as dismissed and disregarded for the sake of that ring. Edited July 30, 2017 by Stu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Stu said: So, it was determined that visual was overshadowing and overtaking music in the GE department. That is what I have been saying from the get-go. Only on the visual sheet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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