Need help with BD Chop and Paste, Walk and Stand approach to design

[Stu]

1 minute ago, Cappybara said:

We've had tons of amazing shows every single year post Y2K :)

But Luv stated that good shows connect because they are good. There have been many, many top 12 WC shows post Y2K that have not connected with the audience, even a winning show or two.  So by this definition of Luv, those shows cannot be good becase they caused DCI to be so concerned about disconnect they had to address it with those top corps.

[bluesman]

Blue Devils beat Santa Clara Vanguard by .10 last night.  SCV won Music and GE.  Blue Devils won Visual, despite the fact that they do less drill than almost any corps competing for a top 12 position.  Their Visual advantage alone was enough to beat SCV.

If this happens at Finals the uproar is going to be deafening.  

Edited July 29, 2017 by bluesman
wording

[Stu]

2 hours ago, luv4corps said:

But when I speak of pop culture, I'm not just talking about music.  I'm talking about commercialization, themes, behaviors, trends, gestalt, zeitgeist, all of those at times intangible concepts that make up a span of years in the grand scheme of time. 

1) DCI places their product into the public ‘commercial’ square through marketing, promotion, appealing, and selling tickets to the masses (Major League in Major Stadiums designed for mass consumption);

2) Corps create ‘themes’ and 'behaviors' that reflect culture of the times (From the ethos of the Magical Mystery Tour to the soul of the Core of Temptation);

3) Corps follow ‘trends’ of the changing culture (implementing electronics, synths, stage productions);

4) Corps design ‘gestalt’ type shows that are more than the sum of their parts and follow the a ‘zeitgeist’ attitude of reflecting the spirit of the times (see all shows)

Therefore, DCI and the various corps are already doing, and have been doing for a long time, these things that, to you, do nothing more than “pander” to the audience.  So here is a serious question: Why do you even bother supporting an activity which is already doing all the things you supposedly despise so much?

Edited July 29, 2017 by Stu

[GUARDLING]

46 minutes ago, bluesman said:

Blue Devils beat Santa Clara Vanguard by .10 last night.  SCV won Music and GE.  Blue Devils won Visual, despite the fact that they do less drill than almost any corps competing for a top 12 position.  Their Visual advantage alone was enough to beat SCV.

If this happens at Finals the uproar is going to be deafening.  

More of something doesn't necessarily  make it better.

[luv4corps]

2 hours ago, Stu said:

1) DCI places their product into the public ‘commercial’ square through marketing, promotion, appealing, and selling tickets to the masses (Major League in Major Stadiums designed for mass consumption);

2) Corps create ‘themes’ and 'behaviors' that reflect culture of the times (From the ethos of the Magical Mystery Tour to the soul of the Core of Temptation);

3) Corps follow ‘trends’ of the changing culture (implementing electronics, synths, stage productions);

4) Corps design ‘gestalt’ type shows that are more than the sum of their parts and follow the a ‘zeitgeist’ attitude of reflecting the spirit of the times (see all shows)

Therefore, DCI and the various corps are already doing, and have been doing for a long time, these things that, to you, do nothing more than “pander” to the audience.  So here is a serious question: Why do you even bother supporting an activity which is already doing all the things you supposedly despise so much?

I think you're taking me too literally.  If we didn't take culture into consideration when doing shows, there would be not material for shows!  My comments were in response to a few on here basically saying drum corps needed to be dumbed down so people would understand it better.  I disagree.  That is my point.  It should keep doing what it has already been doing.  I don't know how else to put it!

Edited July 29, 2017 by luv4corps

[Stu]

8 minutes ago, luv4corps said:

I think you're taking me too literally.  If we didn't take culture into consideration when doing shows, there would be not material for shows!  My comments were in response to a few on here basically saying drum corps needed to be dumbed down so people would understand it better.  I disagree.  That is my point.  It should keep doing what it has already been doing.  I don't know how else to put it!

You have placed this issue in the accusational mode of 'pandring'. Which is a term that indicates a condescending attitude toward a particular aspect; and in this case it is a mindless type of pop culture in which you deem to be beneath your artistic desires. So, please cite in proper context without any spin anyone's postings, including mine, which have advocated the complete 'dumbing down' of corps performances to the point where those who seek some intellectual stimulation, like you, are not served by each and every show design. That would support your accusation of 'pandering'.

[luv4corps]

17 minutes ago, Stu said:

You have placed this issue in the accusational mode of 'pandring'. Which is a term that indicates a condescending attitude toward a particular aspect; and in this case it is a mindless type of pop culture in which you deem to be beneath your artistic desires. So, please cite in proper context without any spin anyone's postings, including mine, which have advocated the complete 'dumbing down' of corps performances to the point where those who seek some intellectual stimulation, like you, are not served by each and every show design. That would support your accusation of 'pandering'.

Sure I will find some citations, but later.  Right now I am watching (and very much enjoying) the show.

[Stu]

Just now, luv4corps said:

Sure I will find some citations, but later.  Right now I am watching (and very much enjoying) the show.

Remember, to be 'pandering' the citations have to show the advocation for, and complete promotion of, designing shows to the mindless pop culture along with a lack of regard for those who seek intellectual stimuli. Otherwise it is neither 'pandering' nor 'advocating' but just seeking a better balance between the simple and the complex.

[Cappybara]

4 hours ago, Stu said:

But Luv stated that good shows connect because they are good. There have been many, many top 12 WC shows post Y2K that have not connected with the audience, even a winning show or two.  So by this definition of Luv, those shows cannot be good becase they caused DCI to be so concerned about disconnect they had to address it with those top corps.

But I'm not going by Luv's definition. I'm going by my own. I've enjoyed DCI post Y2K just as much if not more than the 80s and 90s

[Stu]

2 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

But I'm not going by Luv's definition. I'm going by my own. I've enjoyed DCI post Y2K just as much if not more than the 80s and 90s

That is fine, and I agree with you. But since Luv made the claim that good shows will always connect, it places that believe in a paradox if Luv in turn also claims particular top WC shows deemed by DCI as being so disconnecting with the audience it created a minor panic are actually 'good' shows.