ContraFart Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 On 7/8/2017 at 4:55 PM, dcsnare93 said: The great thing is, there are over 20 world class corps and over 40 if you include open class. If you don't like BD's approach, there's plenty of other corps to enjoy! I think the problem is not just preference, its that this approach is rewarded by the judging community. That causes a fatigue when BD is 1st or 2nd every year. Its also why there is so much BD 'hate' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboogey73 Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 21 minutes ago, ContraFart said: I think the problem is not just preference, its that this approach is rewarded by the judging community. That causes a fatigue when BD is 1st or 2nd every year. Its also why there is so much BD 'hate' This. The real issue is that the BD approach has been winning. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 6 hours ago, Stu said: The following was rather fun, and I challenge anyone to do this; but I mainly did it out of curiosity to test the differences in viewpoint between Jeff and myself. On Saturday evening I invited over a number of friends who like both music and sports and told them that I would provide them with some BBQ in exchange for watching an evening of videos along with voicing some commentary. They agreed… provided that the food was going to be stellar! Anyway, after they arrived and we began to chow down I turned on the 52” Flat Screen with surround sound and connected it to YouTube. Then the experiment began (note that while I did tell them this was an experiment, I did not give them any per-conceived hint whatsoever as to my own hypothesis). We watched some 1972 through 1976 DCI video excerpts, trying to just watch professional recorded shows when possible; and we also watched excerpts of DCI shows from 2012 through 2016. We then watched some 1972 through 1976 NFL excerpts, along with some 2012 through 2016 NFL coverage. (and by the way, the food did need to be stellar for them to do this willingly, if any of y'all want to try this!) Anyway, after that I asked everyone to provide some commentary based on what they had just watched and heard. DCI: Aside from the video and audio quality differences, they all noted some minor similarities between the two eras like brass, drums, flags, etc.... However, the overwhelming opinion from everyone was that while they realized they were watching DCI, the shows and designs were so vastly, massively, and immensely different from one era to the other it looked and sounded to them like the activity was morphing into something different than it was in the seventies. NFL: Again aside from the audio and video quality difference, there were some noted differences in types of play calls and some rule changes were commented on like the two point conversion and a few others. But in this case the overwhelming opinion was that they were certain that they were watching the exact same activity; that the NFL has not changed all that much in forty years, especially compared to DCI, and in fact, here is the real kicker, if it were not for the audio and video quality differences much of the early seventies action could have been mistaken as recent action. Doh!!! Anyway, this was just for fun to find out the opinions of other people and not to be claimed in any way shape or form as being fact. Comments from y’all are welcome; even those who will claim that I have too much time on my hands. Which, by the way, is a rather good song by Styx. Neat comparisons between DCI from different eras and the NFL from different eras. If I were to counter this and offer reasons for why these changes have taken or not taken place, I'd say the following: The NFL is a competitive sport in which two teams play each other at the same time on the football field. What one team tries to do depends largely on what the other team allows them to do. They beat each other black and blue. There is a high rate of NO SUCCESS in the NFL. In other words, plays often do not work because the other teams counters, therefore you have lots of dropped balls, running plays that go for very few yards, QBs that miss their targets, fumbles, and interceptions. Drum & Bugle Corps is competitive for sure, but it's mainly a music and visual art form in which one corps performs their show on a football field uninterrupted. These performances can include almost anything musical or visual and other corps are not physically trying to stop anything another corps performs. Shows are designed to be entertaining for the fans, but also competitive for the judges. Judging artistry is always going to be subjective. Art, music, visual design, dance, etc. are beautiful performance art forms that are always progressing. Look at the music scene from the 1950s to now. Drum corps was never going to stay the same, no matter what people think. As a music and visual art form D&BC will always be a reflection of present day society to some extent, along with progressive looks into the future -- just like the rest of the arts (perhaps with the exception of the symphony orchestra -- and even many of them are trying different things). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, DrumCorpsRadio said: For the record, I tend to enjoy your posts and your willingness to recognize others' points when they change your thinking. Far too little of that these days. Thank you for the compliment. While I am consistent in my thinking and beliefs, I am willing to change when I am shown to be an error. Like in this case, I was willing to draft a completely different post if it was found to be true that football was vastly and completely different the way Jeff had contended. I was willing to come over to Jeff's opinion if the results had been different. By the way, the point of this experiment was not really on DCI, that was just used as a test comparison. The point was however on football and the NFL, and how much it had changed or stayed the same in the eyes of general fans of sports. Edited July 30, 2017 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 3 hours ago, DrumCorpsRadio said: This is an interesting discussion starter and is leading to some cognitive dissonance for me. The statistics about the incredible popularity of the NFL are pretty readily available. According to The Harris Poll, the NFL has been the most popular professional sport league in the United States for 30+ years with a widening margin having barely edged out MLB in the beginning and now winning by over 20%. So what has changed to allow the NFL to get a greater market share of entertainment time, attention and money from fans in an ever-growing marketplace? Was it just TV coverage (which should not be undervalued)? Does it have something to do with how the game has turned from the grunt-work of running to the excitement of passing? Interesting questions. Maybe it also had to do with shortened attention spans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBD Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, ContraFart said: I think the problem is not just preference, its that this approach is rewarded by the judging community. That causes a fatigue when BD is 1st or 2nd every year. Its also why there is so much BD 'hate' You always act like BD doesn't deserve to win. I can come up with many more examples where they were the best and didn't win. Heck in 08 where were you when they had the far tougher drill than Phantom? The real reason is you simply don't like them winning and don't like them at all. Edited July 30, 2017 by MikeBD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 22 hours ago, bluesman said: Blue Devils beat Santa Clara Vanguard by .10 last night. SCV won Music and GE. Blue Devils won Visual, despite the fact that they do less drill than almost any corps competing for a top 12 position. Their Visual advantage alone was enough to beat SCV. If this happens at Finals the uproar is going to be deafening. BD shows you they can do something well then they move on. That's what the sheets reward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 On 7/29/2017 at 5:31 AM, Stu said: By stop being so 2012, I take it then that the pre-season pre-show tutorials have stopped or have been considerably lessened since 2012? Stuff is out there, but it's less..... what's the word.... blatant in talking down to people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 On 7/29/2017 at 5:37 AM, Stu said: Why then did DCI have to make sure and address this visual/music - music/visual crossover with the GE judges a few years back? It's been on GE sheets for years. The problem was visual got away from referenceing the music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 10 hours ago, LSU GRAD 82 said: Different strokes for different folks. As an "Old School Drum & BUGLE Corps" guy, I LOVE the "Park and Barks." "Squat and Blows" were a strong component of 70's/80's/90's "In your Face" D&BC" and all of us from the Jurassic Era miss that. Just rear back and blow those G Bugles SFZ. We wanted, expected and anticipated it at every show. BTW, I notice very few Adults at shows today. It's 90% high school and college Bando's. Most of us from Jurassic Park have been so alienated, that we don't go to shows any longer. I still do, just so I can keep up with what's current in the "Marching Musical Theater and Yoga" activity. Many don't waste their time anymore though because they have no interest in the entire "Film, Play, Ballet, Opera" on a football field thing. I'm one of the dwindling few from the "S.E.C. Football" Drum Corps days that still attend a few shows over the Summer. Blue Devils 2017 gives us a little bit of what we enjoyed. Hey, throw us a bone every now and then because we're starving!......................... We must not go to the same shows. I see lots of adults Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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