Stu Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 13 minutes ago, ContraFart said: So basically you are saying that numbers shift and the sport is completely subjective, but we should blindly agree in the wisdom of the judges because my opinion doesn't count The judges subjective opinion is recorded in the scores and rankings, your subjective opinion is recorded in buying or not buying a ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Stu said: By you using the term 'unreasonably shift', even you are engaging in subjective evaluation. 1st to 2nd place shift, guards shifting mere fractions of a point, to others those are 'reasonable shifts' due to many, many, many factors. And all, even you, are engaging in subjective opinion. Then if numbers only represent opinion, then why do we have them? The numbers either represent educated evaluation in which the results can be duplicated, or they can represent opinion. NOT BOTH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeusExGreenMachina Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, ContraFart said: Of course I am going to question the one that is not like the others. Usually, differences in scores at that point focus on the right side, i.e. excellence or execution. When a new set of eyes sees a unit performing very well, they may "read" more in terms of composition or vocabulary on the left side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, ContraFart said: I may not have the vocabulary to describe what I see in the same context as the judging community, but I am far from uneducated. All in all 3 shows, all at the same venue, all have the same content, 2 shows yield similar results, the 3rd has different results. Of course I am going to question the one that is not like the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, ContraFart said: Then if numbers only represent opinion, then why do we have them? The numbers either represent educated evaluation in which the results can be duplicated, or they can represent opinion. NOT BOTH! This isn't some scientific experiment. If you are looking for results that can be duplicated, you may have gotten lost and are looking for a research forum. Furthermore, as Stu mentioned, I don't know why we have to move from one extreme to another. Just because the numbers represent educated opinion does not mean there should be no numbers at all. Come on. You're capable of better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, DeusExGreenMachina said: Usually, differences in scores at that point focus on the right side, i.e. excellence or execution. When a new set of eyes sees a unit performing very well, they may "read" more in terms of composition or vocabulary on the left side. I know that I am going in circles here, but if the results cannot be duplicated, then how valid is the system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeusExGreenMachina Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 Just now, ContraFart said: I know that I am going in circles here, but if the results cannot be duplicated, then how valid is the system? No no no it's ok. @Stu has brought us in many circles here. You sound like a scientist. Results probably cannot be duplicated especially because panels change, and performances of the units are always different, even with the same composition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Just now, ContraFart said: Then if numbers only represent opinion, then why do we have them? The numbers either represent educated evaluation in which the results can be duplicated, or they can represent opinion. NOT BOTH! A) Competition and scoring is merely a way for the corps to challenge each other to get better, which in turn makes for better performances. B) No two humans can evaluate the same performance and duplicate seeing and hearing exactly the same aspects, let alone one evaluating one performance and the another evaluating a completely different performance. C) This is art evaluation not mathematical perfection. So to take the human out of the art evaluation is to take the art out of the human. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, ContraFart said: I know that I am going in circles here, but if the results cannot be duplicated, then how valid is the system? Because in many ways it is an abstract system. Example: if you are holding a $100 bill the 'value' of that piece of paper fluctuates even while you hold it. There are many factors going on simultaneously impacting the value. Even though it has $100 stamped on it (or the sheet) the actual value is different day to day based on many outside factors. Edited August 21, 2017 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, Stu said: A) Competition and scoring is merely a way for the corps to challenge each other to get better, which in turn makes for better performances. B) No two humans can evaluate the same performance and duplicate seeing and hearing exactly the same aspects, let alone one evaluating one performance and the another evaluating a completely different performance. C) This is art evaluation not mathematical perfection. So to take the human out of the art evaluation is to take the art out of the human. I see what you are trying to say, but not once in this entire thread has consistency been a judging goal. We are supposed to just accept that scores can swing depending on the panel. I strongly feel that the basis of competition should not fall on the names on the judging sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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