Stu Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 12 minutes ago, ContraFart said: But here is where the football reference does not work. The performance variance in an NFL team can be caused by the head to head match up. A team with a good running game can be stifled by a great run defence and there is no way to change the game plan. Each drum corps show is isolated so variances cannot be caused by the actions or strategies of another team. The variances in venue that do exist can effect all corps relatively the same (weather, acoustics, field condition, etc.) I am not trying to negate the existence of a bad run. It can happen, but I think the frequency of a bad run is lower and the negative impact of a bad run is significantly mitigated the higher level the corps is....as I said before top 3 or 4. All analogies fail at some level. All I was doing was pointing out that performance to performance yields varience and judging panel to judging panel yields varience irrespective of the activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Stu said: All analogies fail at some level. All I was doing was pointing out that performance to performance yields varience and judging panel to judging panel yields varience irrespective of the activity. But if the performing groups and the judges are both fluid, then scores mean nothing. You keep trying to square a circle by saying that judges adhere to the sheets while at the same time saying no 2 judging panels will score a show the same way. You defend inconsistency by just chalking it up to human error. Either drum corps is a competition or a commented art exhibition where personal biases are expected. In order for there to be integrity to the competition, there has to be some sort of trustable consistency. Can there be slight variences in this consistency? Yes, but not half a point in a single caption on consecutive nights at the same venue when the performance level did not change in any meaningful way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, ContraFart said: But my original example is based on championship week where the conditions do not change... Conditions change hour by hour and day by day during finals week. On Thursday, the number of fans in the stands from Pioneer to BD, the fatigue of the judges from Pioneer to BD, the sounds from the audience corps to corps, the light, or lack thereof, coming through the endzone window, all of those conditions change, and thosr variables have done effect, and that is just on Thursday. The walk corps have from the park may be pleasent on Friday and rainy on Saturday. I could even cite many, many more variables which slightly alter the way performers and judges act and react every day during finals week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 minute ago, ContraFart said: But if the performing groups and the judges are both fluid, then scores mean nothing. There is that extreme exaggeration again that makes me chuckle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 19 minutes ago, DeusExGreenMachina said: Since when are corps doing the exact same things? I was speaking in reference to the environmental factors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Just now, Stu said: There is that extreme exaggeration again that makes me chuckle. But read it in context with the rest of the statement. But honestly what can a score really mean if I have no idea how it was created? Did the corp have a bad night? Did the judge only look at side B the entire show? If its as fluid as you say, I have no point of reference to put any amount of faith into any score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Let me put it this way Lets say we created an experiment where we showed judges the semis performance of SCV and BD and gave judges the scores from the finals performance. Would there be disagreements in the captions SCV won on Friday but did not win on Saturday because the video they would be watching is of SCV winning those captions, or would there just be a defense of the finals scores since that is what they think the wisdom of the judges was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, ContraFart said: But honestly what can a score really mean if I have no idea how it was created? Did the corp have a bad night? Did the judge only look at side B the entire show? If its as fluid as you say, I have no point of reference to put any amount of faith into any score. You're right, the corps staff have absolutely no feedback whatsoever from the judge. It is just an arbitrary number thrown down with no reference point, no real meaning, the staff have no idea that a recording was made by the judge, no idea of what was said and written down by that judge, no way of referencing those comments to a criteria sheet, no way of knowing what those sheets say and mean, .. You are so very, very right. Edited August 21, 2017 by Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 On 8/20/2017 at 2:08 AM, Stu said: I looked at all three recaps (Th, Fri, Sat) right of center: CG, MB, and MA, even all the way over to Perc a) I see nothing where a radical shift changed in rankings at the top (no more than +/- one position in any caption) b) I also see nothing where an 'archaic design' was placed way ahead of a 'newer artistic design' c) So far, I see no reason to seek a retirement based on a judge rewarding archaic designs over newer designs. Ok good for you. Then again you prefer the oldies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 On 8/20/2017 at 2:10 AM, Stu said: Ya can tease me, just don't tickle me like you do elmo!!!! Ew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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