leanlion Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: why not just have the show with DCI judges on DCI sheets, and then fill out the DCA sheets with the judges working the DCI part. It makes no sense for a corps to do a show on sheets that mean nothing to their end game, just like when the DCM corps got judges on the old open class sheets, knowing full well the numbers meant nothing to DCA's system? This topic started asking for comments on merging. While this idea is great fodder for DCP, the likelihood of it happening is remote. Jeff, you and I both know the business model of DCA is far from perfect. I admire the long term member corps for hanging in, much can be said for a change in direction that improves the experience for all involved. God knows you have own version of what should take place. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 6 hours ago, leanlion said: This topic started asking for comments on merging. While this idea is great fodder for DCP, the likelihood of it happening is remote. Jeff, you and I both know the business model of DCA is far from perfect. I admire the long term member corps for hanging in, much can be said for a change in direction that improves the experience for all involved. God knows you have own version of what should take place. actually I am open to many ideas...except the one you proposed LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 Thoughts not directed at anyone in particular: The first thing to go will be the separate sheets. All this fluff about DCA having some sort of unique brand of entertainment focus is baloney. Entertaining - yes. Unique - no. Look at the shows. They do the same kind of drum corps that DCI does. Changing to DCI sheets would save the time/effort/money of maintaining a proprietary system that no one else in the marching arts uses, while allowing DCI and DCA to cross-pollinate their judging pools. The rest probably will not change until DCA becomes insolvent, or has too few remaining corps to be viable separately. And that could happen from either corps folding, or leaving DCA to do DCI instead. As DCA corps memberships get younger, the transition to junior corps becomes possible. Smaller DCA corps may one day see DCI SoundSport as an alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 1 hour ago, cixelsyd said: Thoughts not directed at anyone in particular: The first thing to go will be the separate sheets. All this fluff about DCA having some sort of unique brand of entertainment focus is baloney. Entertaining - yes. Unique - no. Look at the shows. They do the same kind of drum corps that DCI does. Changing to DCI sheets would save the time/effort/money of maintaining a proprietary system that no one else in the marching arts uses, while allowing DCI and DCA to cross-pollinate their judging pools. The rest probably will not change until DCA becomes insolvent, or has too few remaining corps to be viable separately. And that could happen from either corps folding, or leaving DCA to do DCI instead. As DCA corps memberships get younger, the transition to junior corps becomes possible. Smaller DCA corps may one day see DCI SoundSport as an alternative. Ever stop to think lot of young people want to do Weekend Warrior circuit because of fills their need better? and still waiting for that first corps to go from DCA to DCI.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Ever stop to think lot of young people want to do Weekend Warrior circuit because of fills their need better? and still waiting for that first corps to go from DCA to DCI.... I thought it might happen with MBI, but it looks like they're staying all-age for now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 To put a little history to the DCA is dying bit.... thought that drum corps was really going down the tubes when 13 corps showed up for Championships about 25 years ago. At least that was a wake up call to start the Class A division which was one of their best moves imo. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 (edited) DCA weighs Effect more heavily. A lot more. They also don't have the same focus on trying to be cutting edge and innovative on the placemats. As for being "unique"... I don't think DCA's tried to intimate that. Perhaps more accessible and fan-friendly in terms of design? More for simple enjoyment rather then outright trying to impress the audience? That could be argued and parsed, but at least the attempt is made to be more fan-friendly. DCA already has people judging for them who judge DCI. It's not a problem or issue for experienced adjudicators to use different sheets and rubrics and get the right number down for any contest using a given system. At least one corps that struggled in DCA have already moved to Soundsport. Frankly, I don't see the reason they left being DCA proper, more their internal issues and capabilities as an organization. DCA corps have been "younger" in general for decades. Jim's point about affordability and ability to do other things and remain in a corps is extremely salient. To march a DCA unit, the fee/dues/tuition numbers I've seen and been quoted range from about 450-800 a year in DCA, with a high of 1100/more like 1500 after various additional fees are tacked on from one particular unit. That's what-- a tenth to about a third of a typical World Class corps? And this hasn't changed much in proportion over the decades. I paid 35-150 a season circa 1980 when Crossmen charged around 750. Taking inflation into account, I believe the numbers are about the same. Incidentally, that was when Crossmen had the infamous bus asplosion in the Mojave. I'm just sensing more looking down the nose at DCA with some of this. Kind of the Formula One attitude towards NASCAR. Both provide a similar spectacle, both entertain. Both have a different enough way of going about it and emphases. One is not necessarily 'better" nor the absolute and correct solution. Edited September 7, 2018 by BigW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 22 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Ever stop to think lot of young people want to do Weekend Warrior circuit because of fills their need better? Yes. And it also seems like increasing encroachments on late August and Labor Day weekend will leave us with less people in that category in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: Yes. And it also seems like increasing encroachments on late August and Labor Day weekend will leave us with less people in that category in the future. Haven't heard as much concern and hand wringing about that as is supposed. The real concern I've heard from DCA corps staff has been more the reticence of certain HS directors to let/allow their kids to do this, and it's not the Labor Day issue... more the fear they'll have a kid in place that now knows they're a hack. Edited September 7, 2018 by BigW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 28 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: To put a little history to the DCA is dying bit.... thought that drum corps was really going down the tubes when 13 corps showed up for Championships about 25 years ago. At least that was a wake up call to start the Class A division which was one of their best moves imo. Remember that? 13 corps total in 1993. All 13 were put into finals. I recently saw a FB post talking about the days when "there were 30-40 corps"...I believe the poster meant at the championship. In fact, the most ever at DCA was 26... in 2005. Basically, it wasn't until 2004 that the "corps at prelims" count regularly hit 20 or more for several years, before dropping back to the upper teens. Before that, the norm tended to be between about 15 and 19 for any given year. 23 corps in 1987.... but that was an outlier. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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