cfirwin3 Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 Just now, N.E. Brigand said: No I get that, I was just quibbling about the idea that they're still experimenting. They've tried it. It sounds bad to a lot of people. They either don't know or don't care. I mean, is there a drum corps sound designer who really thinks, "This time, I'm sure they'll like it!"? Yeah I think they do... but only because they do get it right for a certain demographic in certain seats in certain stadiums (I'm not speaking in code about judges... I really do mean it). Again, my personal philosophy on this is in line with its original implementation in mixing. If it were like facial makeup... it should NOT be like theatrical makeup (which is ugly and obvious up close and perfectly tuned to a great distance and lighting conditions). But it should be more like well applied cosmetics (enhancing yet specifically unnoticed up close and completely irrelevant at a distance). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 We sure have to twist up the logic to defend the goo. “Experientially” speaking, I found it so painful to my ears and so distorting of the sound quality as to make it not worth my money to experience it anymore. So I hope the dozen people “in the box” are enjoying good sound quality. Outside the box, I was not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Curiously, HockeyDad, the "goo" comes across pretty good when using Flo as the delivery system. Like you, I've had a few in-stadium experiences that were awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 35 minutes ago, HockeyDad said: We sure have to twist up the logic to defend the goo. “Experientially” speaking, I found it so painful to my ears and so distorting of the sound quality as to make it not worth my money to experience it anymore. So I hope the dozen people “in the box” are enjoying good sound quality. Outside the box, I was not. I haven't seen anyone twist any 'logic' to 'defend' it. It is what it is for the purpose that's meant. You either like the pupose, merely appreciate the purpose or hate the purpose. Additionally, you can find youself liking OR appreciating the purpose and then liking the implementation, merely appreciating the implementation or hating the implementation. Just because it's cut and dry for your taste (which is merely taste) doesn't mean that the alternative perspectives are 'twists' in 'logic'. But you know that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 For the most part, Bluecoats and Blue Devils got it right last night. There were only a few bad moments. (And again, I had a great seat.) But there shouldn't be any. What bothered me about s much, and not just from those corps, was how much brass sound was coming through the mikes. And not just solos.* Remember when we were told that one reason to amplify the pit and then to amplify the solos, was to allow those elements to be heard when the full brass was playing? That was always dubious logic: who says you have to hear the pit over the full brass? But now it's shown to have been a big lie, since apparently the whole brass line needs to be amplified (sometimes) to be heard over the pit. Or something. *In one show last night, a trumpet solo started, and it wasn't miked, and it was coming through clear and fine to the top of the stands, and I thought, "Oh, how refreshing." But it turns out it was a mistake, because halfway through the solo the sound was suddenly miked. So unnecessary. Do any corps have any unmiked solos any more? Are members even still capable of playing them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 35 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: I haven't seen anyone twist any 'logic' to 'defend' it. It is what it is for the purpose that's meant. You either like the pupose, merely appreciate the purpose or hate the purpose. Additionally, you can find youself liking OR appreciating the purpose and then liking the implementation, merely appreciating the implementation or hating the implementation. Just because it's cut and dry for your taste (which is merely taste) doesn't mean that the alternative perspectives are 'twists' in 'logic'. But you know that. I think the logic twist was the purpose. It was never needed. It only exists because of the never ending drum corps arms race. Everyone looking for that competitive leg up on everyone else. What’s the next toy that we can’t live without, all wrapped up in “the activity must be allowed to evolve” paper and ribbon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, HockeyDad said: I think the logic twist was the purpose. It was never needed. It only exists because of the never ending drum corps arms race. Everyone looking for that competitive leg up on everyone else. What’s the next toy that we can’t live without, all wrapped up in “the activity must be allowed to evolve” paper and ribbon? you deciding not to complain about every new toy added is the next toy i hope for 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, HockeyDad said: I think the logic twist was the purpose. It was never needed. It only exists because of the never ending drum corps arms race. Everyone looking for that competitive leg up on everyone else. What’s the next toy that we can’t live without, all wrapped up in “the activity must be allowed to evolve” paper and ribbon? It's easy to say that because this activity is competitive and all design decisions are presumed (wrongly) to be made exclusively on these grounds. It's also easy to say it if one's mind is firmly fixated on the score sheets and presence of judges. It's easy for drumcorps to fall into the same trap and it's obvious when they do. But what is the explanation for the presence, use and experimentation of this stuff in all other idioms of music composition and performance? Surely, musical presentation at large is not an organized competitive environment. Just for the sake of discussion, the first time (when the rules were relaxed on this) that I heard an aesthetically interesting use of sub bass that was noticeable was at Allentown. I heard it, and my wife turned to me and read my mind when she said "that was a really neat effect". We were watching... Pioneer. Would you like to tell me that Pioneer jumped the field with their implementation due to an... ehem... "arms race"? Most things worth talking about can be easily reduced via cynicism. But that reduction requires a whole lot of effort and willful tunnel vision. Edited July 30, 2019 by cfirwin3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Jeff Ream said: you deciding not to complain about every new toy added is the next toy i hope for Comedy gold. Anyway, What are we now, in the 15th year of allowing amplified sound? And the sound is actually worse now than it was in 2005. And we’re to believe that after 15 years they’re still learning how to use it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 Just now, HockeyDad said: Comedy gold. Anyway, What are we now, in the 15th year of allowing amplified sound? And the sound is actually worse now than it was in 2005. And we’re to believe that after 15 years they’re still learning how to use it? Learning and deciding are not the same thing. They are deciding how to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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