Our Commitment To The Black Lives Matter Movement

[skevinp]

17 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Pretty much what I got told by some when I refused to go to ChicFilA. How could I not go when the company gives so much to charity etc etc. I still stand by my friends and don’t go.

That is not “pretty much” what I said.  It is a different concept about a different issue under a different set of circumstances.  Please do not put words in my mouth, and feel free to take up the matter with your acquaintances if you have concerns with their statements.  

[JimF-LowBari]

12 minutes ago, skevinp said:

That is not “pretty much” what I said.  It is a different concept about a different issue under a different set of circumstances.  Please do not put words in my mouth, and feel free to take up the matter with your acquaintances if you have concerns with their statements.  

Then I’m not sure what you meant.... Sorry

Was trying to relate to differences in opinion on supporting/not supporting groups and people.

Edited June 14, 2020 by JimF-LowBari

[Cappybara]

10 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

I’ve read that CFA will donate to a children in need cause (homelessness) that is supported by LGBT groups. Note: the group is for all children not just LGBT. I’m a cynic so when I read 180 degree changes like this I always wonder how much is a personal change and how much is business driven. No idea just bringing it up.

No surprise CFA would lose previous customers. Some of the people I know who go there go because they claim it is a “faith based” fast food place. Closing on Sunday is an example they give. Would be ironic if anyone refusing to go CFA now, previously said boycotting it was wrong.

Getting a Popeyes near me sometime. Only ate there once while leaving Washington DC. Got my food, sat down... and realized I was the only white person in a crowded lunch time group. No problems, it was just an interesting surprise 😆

Their chicken sandwich, while probably less “healthy” than chick fil a’s (quotation marks because let’s be real, there is little nutritional value from either joints’ sandwiches) is absolutely better than chick fil a’s in my opinion in terms of portion size, flavor, and crispiness. Then again, last time I had chick fil a year ago when I went to a dental conference and it was catered so maybe the sandwich has changed since then

[N.E. Brigand]

On 6/2/2020 at 9:36 PM, DCP NewsFeed said:

The Madison Scouts family grieves with communities affected by the latest tragedies in our country, driven by systemic racism. As educators, it is our duty to establish a standard by which all people are treated equally and afforded the same opportunities to participate in performance, instruction, and leadership. We take action through our work to […]

View the full article

To get back to the original topic: I applaud the Scouts and other corps for publicly commiting to striving further for equality, but I am but I a mindful of criticism that suggests that most of what people are doing is just window dressing for the real problem, or as one columnist wrote:

"We have very strong evidence that racism has been a major factor in shaping our stingy welfare state, our weak labor unions, and our hyper-local education and land use institutions, and what we’re getting is corporate sensitivity seminars and Juneteenth as a white collar day off."

He offers these studies as examples of how racism underlies many of our systmes:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/7/25/20703660/school-segregation-district-borders-map-data

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2019/10/08/restrictive-zoning-is-impeding-dcs-goal-to-build-more-housing/

The writer then makes it personal by pointing to his own family history:

"There’s been a surge of interest in information about the postwar structure of racialized wealth building in the midcentury United States, but I think a lot of people aren’t really understanding:

Back in the 1940s and 1950s, my grandfathers (one Jewish, one Cuban) faced a lot of racism in the sense of interpersonal hostility from bigoted people. Much worse stuff than anyone would say today. But legally speaking they were both white. And that mattered!

As white people, they benefitted in a formal, programmatic sense from the postwar welfare state. People could call them names or slurs or make them feel unwelcome or whatever else they wanted. Nobody could take away their GI benefits or subsidized mortgages. They were white!

With the arm of the state on their side in concrete, material ways they — like millions of other Jewish or Catholic families — were able to raise their living standards and shove their way into the American mainstream despite lots of people being [expletives] to them.

That was the privilege they enjoyed as white people, not immunity from [expletives] but legal entitlement to specific kinds of benefits. Benefits that others were excluded from. And that’s what people need today — tangible things they’ve been denied."

- - - - - - - - - -

And to make it personal for myself, in this case regarding the idea that "hyper-local education" is an example of racism: I lived in Cleveland and attended Cleveland's public schools until the spring of 1980, when my mother moved us to a suburb. Why did we move? Because a judge had ruled, quite correctly, that the Cleveland school system was segregated on the basis of race, and that the schools in the predominantly black neighborhoods weren't delivering as good an education as the schools in the predominantly white neighborhoods. His remedy was to require busing: students would be bused to schools outside their neighborhoods so that racial mix in each school would appoximate that of the city as a whole.

But what was the actual result of his ruling? White flight: people moved to the suburbs. And apparently the judge didn't have the authority to require busing between school districts, or for some reason he didn't want to impose on the suburbs. But Cleveland schools, already struggling, plummeted in quality as the families who could afford to move out did so.

My mother said that we moved because she didn't want us to spend an hour or more each day on a bus, or to have to travel far from where we lived. (As a first grader, just six years old, I would walk the ten minutes each way to and from school, by myself. Imagine letting kids do that today! And crime was far worse in the 1970s and 1980s than it is now.) I'm not saying that my mother's motives were racist. I am saying that regardless of her reasons, she was contributing to the problem by moving us away. She was encouraging systemic racism to continue.

- - - - - - - - - -

Edit: let me add to this point: "regardless of her reasons, she was contributing to the problem".

In the Equity, Diversity and Inclusion training seminars we've been taking where I work, it's been noted several times that people are very defensive about their actions being described as racist, in ways that they never would be in other situations.

If you're driving and you accidentally hit a pedestrian, you'd never say things like, "I'm not biased against pedestrians! Some of my best friends are pedestrians. I'm married to a pedestrian!" And while it's good to feel remorse for striking a pedestrian with a car, it's also not the most important issue. What matters are that the injured person get medical attention and be compensated for damages.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by N.E. Brigand

[Cappybara]

6 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said:

To get back to the original topic: I applaud the Scouts and other corps for publicly commiting to striving further for equality, but I am but I a mindful of criticism that suggests that most of what people are doing is just window dressing for the real problem, or as one columnist wrote:

"We have very strong evidence that racism has been a major factor in shaping our stingy welfare state, our weak labor unions, and our hyper-local education and land use institutions, and what we’re getting is corporate sensitivity seminars and Juneteenth as a white collar day off."

He offers these studies as examples of how racism underlies many of our systmes:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/7/25/20703660/school-segregation-district-borders-map-data

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2019/10/08/restrictive-zoning-is-impeding-dcs-goal-to-build-more-housing/

The writer then makes it personal by pointing to his own family history:

"There’s been a surge of interest in information about the postwar structure of racialized wealth building in the midcentury United States, but I think a lot of people aren’t really understanding:

Back in the 1940s and 1950s, my grandfathers (one Jewish, one Cuban) faced a lot of racism in the sense of interpersonal hostility from bigoted people. Much worse stuff than anyone would say today. But legally speaking they were both white. And that mattered!

As white people, they benefitted in a formal, programmatic sense from the postwar welfare state. People could call them names or slurs or make them feel unwelcome or whatever else they wanted. Nobody could take away their GI benefits or subsidized mortgages. They were white!

With the arm of the state on their side in concrete, material ways they — like millions of other Jewish or Catholic families — were able to raise their living standards and shove their way into the American mainstream despite lots of people being [expletives] to them.

That was the privilege they enjoyed as white people, not immunity from [expletives] but legal entitlement to specific kinds of benefits. Benefits that others were excluded from. And that’s what people need today — tangible things they’ve been denied."

- - - - - - - - - -

And to make it personal for myself, in this case regarding the idea that "hyper-local education" is an example of racism: I lived in Cleveland and attended Cleveland's public schools until the spring of 1980, when my mother moved us to a suburb. Why did we move? Because a judge had ruled, quite correctly, that the Cleveland school system was segregated on the basis of race, and that the schools in the predominantly black neighborhoods weren't delivering as good an education as the schools in the predominantly white neighborhoods. His remedy was to require busing: students would be bused to schools outside their neighborhoods so that racial mix in each school would appoximate that of the city as a whole.

But what was the actual result of his ruling? White flight: people moved to the suburbs. And apparently the judge didn't have the authority to require busing between school districts, or for some reason he didn't want to impose on the suburbs. But Cleveland schools, already struggling, plummeted in quality as the families who could afford to move out did so.

My mother said that we moved because she didn't want us to spend an hour or more each day on a bus, or to have to travel far from where we lived. (As a first grader, just six years old, I would walk the ten minutes each way to and from school, by myself. Imagine letting kids do that today! And crime was far worse in the 1970s and 1980s than it is now.) I'm not saying that my mother's motives were racist. I am saying that regardless of her reasons, she was contributing to the problem by moving us away. She was encouraging systemic racism to continue.

 

 

Can always count on you for well thought out and detailed posts. Thank you for sharing that. 

[JimF-LowBari]

3 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

Can always count on you for well thought out and detailed posts. Thank you for sharing that. 

And to add on years back saw a training vid of “what you were then is what you are now” (mid 80s ish). Basically our experiences growing up shape our opinions and lifestyles more than we realize. Also thanks

[skevinp]

10 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

Their chicken sandwich, while probably less “healthy” than chick fil a’s (quotation marks because let’s be real, there is little nutritional value from either joints’ sandwiches) is absolutely better than chick fil a’s in my opinion in terms of portion size, flavor, and crispiness. Then again, last time I had chick fil a year ago when I went to a dental conference and it was catered so maybe the sandwich has changed since then

Or maybe it hasn’t.  They have never done anything for me.  

The best chicken sandwich I have had in the last year was at SmashBurger.  Not that their burgers aren’t great also.  

[JimF-LowBari]

6 minutes ago, skevinp said:

Or maybe it hasn’t.  They have never done anything for me.  

The best chicken sandwich I have had in the last year was at SmashBurger.  Not that their burgers aren’t great also.  

Gotta beat MickeyDs (especially since the non breaded version is off the menu during CV), Wendy’s and Buzzard King. No other choices here....

On topic (what’s that 😈): When get a chance I’ll have to look at some of the corps statements. Thank goodness Corps are at least talking about it. Also glad speaking out quickly as opposed to timeline of the predator issue. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by JimF-LowBari

[skevinp]

1 minute ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Gotta beat MickeyDs (especially since the non breaded version is off the menu during CV), Wendy’s and Buzzard King. No other choices here....

When get a chance I’ll have to look at some of the corps statements. Thank goodness Corps are at least talking about it. Also glad speaking out quickly as opposed to the predator issue. 

Wendy’s spicy chicken sandwiches are still high on my list.  

Yes, I look forward to corps releasing statements on who has the best chicken sandwiches.  

Even their stance in support of eating chickens in general should bring more cows inti the fold.

[JimF-LowBari]

5 minutes ago, skevinp said:

Wendy’s spicy chicken sandwiches are still high on my list.  

Yes, I look forward to corps releasing statements on who has the best chicken sandwiches.  

Even their stance in support of eating chickens in general should bring more cows inti the fold.

Will admit I do like ChicFilAs “eat mor chicken” (or however it’s spelled) with the cows. Co-worker collected the stuffed cows and had the CFA calendar which was always funny. Once in a while she’d smirk and invite me to lunch. Knowing full well she was going to CFA I’d laugh and tell her I didn’t want her husband to get jealous and say no. 

If you saw her hunky husband and 5’ 6” me you’d really get the joke. Point is we respected each other’s opinions