THE STANDSTILLS HAVE ALREADY BEGUN

[KVG_DC]

9 hours ago, Precious Roy said:

DM sent.

We've got everybody trained on "heat index," "apparent temperature," and "feels like." Just wait until we try to switch them all to the newfangled Wet Bulb Globe Temperature (WBGT).

This tied to the dew point?  In the past few years I've sort of keyed into the difference between talking about relative humidity v. dew point and what that means for how disgusting or not it's going to be when I hit the door.

Capital Weather Gang here in DC with the WaPo has been great in explaining things in a delightfully geeky way.  

Edit to add:
 

Oh hmm. it's about direct sunlight temps.  https://www.weather.gov/tsa/wbgt

interesting.  Yeah I notice that often too where an 86 can feel hotter than an 94 depending on the time of day because it feels like the sun is literally burning spears into your skin.

Edited July 20, 2022 by KVG_DC

[gak27]

14 hours ago, craiga said:

I agree with Tex.    In BAC'S  case, more than half of the members come from Texas universities.   Also, I was marching BAC in 1980 in Birmingham. I clearly remember eating a bowl of Fruit Loops for breakfast on the day of prelims and having sweat drip down my nose into the cereal.  We also had heavy, black wool uniforms and of course shakos.  Also, as anyone of my age will confirm,  NOBODY had water jugs in those days.   Instead, they gave us salt tablets and I am not making that up.  Even if it is hotter now, the kids are far better cared for than 40+ years ago.

Marched with the Royal Crusaders that year and yes, Birmingham was a true cauldron that year.  Heavy, blue and red wool unis here, with shakos.  Even under the end zone stands, in the shade, there was little respite from the heat/humidity.

As for water and salt tablets and all the rest, there were always those 5 gallon metal water jugs (precursors to the ubiquitous orange Igloo coolers) with the paper cone dispenser on the side.......

[FTNK]

15 hours ago, MadisonBandMan1 said:

Most bands take that first week before august to hammer fundamentals, with some bands producing a small fun show to get the kids engaged and already learning field spacing, dynamics, and everything in a much more toned town way. 

Interesting

[Precious Roy]

6 hours ago, KVG_DC said:

This tied to the dew point?  In the past few years I've sort of keyed into the difference between talking about relative humidity v. dew point and what that means for how disgusting or not it's going to be when I hit the door.

Capital Weather Gang here in DC with the WaPo has been great in explaining things in a delightfully geeky way.  

Edit to add:
 

Oh hmm. it's about direct sunlight temps.  https://www.weather.gov/tsa/wbgt

interesting.  Yeah I notice that often too where an 86 can feel hotter than an 94 depending on the time of day because it feels like the sun is literally burning spears into your skin.

It starts with (dry bulb) temperature, factors in wet bulb temperature (which is related to dewpoint), but then also factors in other things like sun vs shade, wind speed, cloud cover, and sun angles.

The tricky part (if this is going to be used in the future) is that people are already calibrated to the Heat Index/"feels like" temperature, and the WBGT is an entirely different number that people are going to have to recalibrate to. For example, it typically takes a Heat Index of 100 to 105 to trigger an NWS Heat Advisory (and higher than that for an Excessive Heat Warning). For WBGT, stress on the body typically occurs with values in the 80s and 90s (and greater).

[FTNK]

23 minutes ago, Precious Roy said:

It starts with (dry bulb) temperature, factors in wet bulb temperature (which is related to dewpoint), but then also factors in other things like sun vs shade, wind speed, cloud cover, and sun angles.

The tricky part (if this is going to be used in the future) is that people are already calibrated to the Heat Index/"feels like" temperature, and the WBGT is an entirely different number that people are going to have to recalibrate to. For example, it typically takes a Heat Index of 100 to 105 to trigger an NWS Heat Advisory (and higher than that for an Excessive Heat Warning). For WBGT, stress on the body typically occurs with values in the 80s and 90s (and greater).

Thanks for introducing me to WBGT, I am very into monitoring the weather as I live in Georgia and try to bike as much as possible

[Vidal28Rdg]

2 hours ago, FTNK said:

Interesting

Many schools are starting band camp on Monday for sure, I know my alma mater is for sure, just looked at their calendar a few days ago! They’re going to have more indoor blocks than normal, for sure, this heat is sticking around for a while!!

[Vidal28Rdg]

17 hours ago, Precious Roy said:

DM sent.

We've got everybody trained on "heat index," "apparent temperature," and "feels like." Just wait until we try to switch them all to the newfangled Wet Bulb Globe Temperature (WBGT).

I mostly just look at a heat index, “feels like” and the like to see how terrible my day will get when I step outside, I know when I was working outside with a hard hat, long sleeve, jeans and safety vest in the east Texas Summer, I knew my day would be hell regardless haha

[KVG_DC]

3 hours ago, Precious Roy said:

It starts with (dry bulb) temperature, factors in wet bulb temperature (which is related to dewpoint), but then also factors in other things like sun vs shade, wind speed, cloud cover, and sun angles.

The tricky part (if this is going to be used in the future) is that people are already calibrated to the Heat Index/"feels like" temperature, and the WBGT is an entirely different number that people are going to have to recalibrate to. For example, it typically takes a Heat Index of 100 to 105 to trigger an NWS Heat Advisory (and higher than that for an Excessive Heat Warning). For WBGT, stress on the body typically occurs with values in the 80s and 90s (and greater).

Hmm. The weather geek in me is intrigued.  I suppose the benefit of this is more accuracy to the physical impact relative to whether you're in direct sun, in the 'prime heating' hours, etc. ?  In which case, it'd probably prove helpful for outdoor activites like drumcorps.

 

But yeah if the 'heavy impact' is gonna start in the 80s and be more severe by the 90s, there's gonna be a lot of public education needed becuase people are gonna, "Those wusses are calling a heat emergency when it's only 88 out!  I remember when it was a feels like 120 one time."  Not realizing they're comparing numbers from differnt shows and scores from the tic era with modern sheets. 

 

[Precious Roy]

1 hour ago, KVG_DC said:

Hmm. The weather geek in me is intrigued.  I suppose the benefit of this is more accuracy to the physical impact relative to whether you're in direct sun, in the 'prime heating' hours, etc. ?  In which case, it'd probably prove helpful for outdoor activites like drumcorps.

 

But yeah if the 'heavy impact' is gonna start in the 80s and be more severe by the 90s, there's gonna be a lot of public education needed becuase people are gonna, "Those wusses are calling a heat emergency when it's only 88 out!  I remember when it was a feels like 120 one time."  Not realizing they're comparing numbers from differnt shows and scores from the tic era with modern sheets. 

 

You are exactly right in the first paragraph. The NWS is increasingly focusing on impacts, rather than just issuing watches/warnings/advisories. It is fine to tell people that a Heat Advisory is in effect. But the social scientists have taught us that many people aren't using that information to act appropriately. They (the social scientists) tell us (in the weather community) that we need to tell folks what the IMPACT from the weather will be, and also tell them what actions to take to mitigate those impacts.

Personally, I don't see heat index (and its direct siblings like "feels like") going away. But WBGT may eventually become the primary impacts-based tool for those doing physical activities outdoors (construction, athletes, marching arts, etc). I'm almost ready to approach my kid's band director about it, and ask the band boosters to buy a simple WBGT instrument for them to use during band camp. It should then be fairly easy to teach them, "when this instrument reaches xx temperature, the kids should get a break x times per hour."

[KVG_DC]

49 minutes ago, Precious Roy said:

The NWS is increasingly focusing on impacts, rather than just issuing watches/warnings/advisories. It is fine to tell people that a Heat Advisory is in effect. But the social scientists have taught us that many people aren't using that information to act appropriately.

Oh indeed. As a Hoosier living in DC, I’m stunned at how many people weren’t getting what a Severe Thunderstorm Warning meant they should be doing.  And the confusion between a Tornado Watch v Warning. 
 

It does seem the newer Dangerous Thunderstorm Alert language cuts through a bit better here.  But when visiting dad in Indiana recently we had a derecho rip though and the Dangerous Thunderstorm Alert didn’t register with him entirely as it was “different” than what he was used to seeing. 
 

We're creatures of habit and that impacts our behaviors