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How Much 12th Place Changes From Semi's to Finals


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Hi Everyone,

I was bored and couldn't sleep this morning, so I decided to do some research on the 12th place corps, and how their scores change between semifinals and finals. Here's the statistics for every corps that placed 12th place on finals night (there are a couple of exceptions, where a corps jumped into 11th on finals, in which case I used the 11th place semi's corps for the 12th place finals placement)

Year Corps Semis Finals Difference
'22 Troopers 87.425 86.425 -1
'19 Phantom Regiment 87.775 87.2375 -0.5375
'18 Crossmen 87.25 86.75 -0.5
'17 Madison Scouts 86.475 85.25 -1.225
'16 Boston Crusaders 85.525 84.8 -0.725
'15 Crossmen 83.875 85.025 1.15
'14 Crossmen 85.45 86.225 0.775
'13 Blue Stars 86.2 85.45 -0.75
'12 Crossmen 84.8 84 -0.8
'11 Spirit of Atlanta 86.55 85.35 -1.2
'10 Glassmen 86.5 85.8 -0.7
'09 Troopers 85.9 85.1 -0.8
'08 Madison Scouts 86.375 85.225 -1.15
'07 Spirit 85.5 84.5 -1
'06 Spirit 85.275 84.825 -0.45
'05 Spirit 85.75 86.075 0.325
'04 Glassmen 86.375 85.95 -0.425
'03 Spirit 85.5 84.4 -1.1
'02 Seattle Cascades 85.95 84.05 -1.9
'01 Colts 85.95 84.9 -1.05
'00 Bluecoats 85.15 84.4 -0.75
'99 Colts 85.2 86 0.8
'98 Colts (11th in Semis) 87.3 85.3 -2
'97 Carolina Crown 85.9 85 -0.9
'96 Blue Knights 84.6 80.7 -3.9
'95 Magic of Orlando 81.9 82.4 0.5
'94 Colts 83 80.1 -2.9
'93 Colts 84.2 81.6 -2.6
'92 Freelancers 84 83.1 -0.9
'91 Sky Riders 85.1 82.9 -2.2
'90 Dutch Boy 86.3 82.2 -4.1
'89 Crossmen 85.8 84 -1.8
'88 Sky Riders 86.6 85.1 -1.5
'87 Sky Riders 85.3 81.9 -3.4
'86 Velvet Knights 86.4 82.6 -3.8
'85 Freelancers 85.9 83.2 -2.7
'84 Velvet Knights 85.9 83.2 -2.7
'83 Sky Riders 78.7 73.75 -4.95
'82 Spirit of Atlanta 85.05 81.65 -3.4
'81 Troopers 81 78.1 -2.9
'80 Guardsmen 79.55 73.2 -6.35
'79 Troopers 81.9 77.9 -4
'78 Kilties 79.95 77.25 -2.7
'77 Garfield Cadets(13th) 84.45 78.15 -6.3
'76 Guardsmen 83.75 74.25 -9.5
'75 Troopers 79.6 76.2 -3.4
'74 Blue Stars 79.4 75.7 -3.7
'73 Stockton Commodores 77.4 72.25 -5.15
'72 Bleu Raeders 78.85 73.95 -4.9

 

Some notable statistics:

- The largest single drop from semi's to finals was the '76 Guardsmen, losing 9.5 points.

- The average score drop from 2000 to 2022 was 0.6577 points. From 1983 to 1999, the average drop was 2.97 points. And from 1972 to 1982, the average drop was 4.75 points.

- Only four corps have ever improved on their semi's score in finals: '95 Magic of Orlando (+0.5), '99 Colts (+0.8), '05 Spirit (+0.325), and '14 Crossmen (+0.775).

- The corps that likes to eek their way into finals the most is Spirit/Spirit of Atlanta, placing 12th six separate times. Colts, Crossmen, and Troopers all came in 12th place five times each.

- Of the 22 separate corps that have placed in 12th, fully half of them (11) are no longer competing as of 2022 (This will change if/when Spirit comes back).

- Five separate corps (Bluecoats, Carolina Crown, Cadets, Madison Scouts, and Phantom Regiment) have all placed in 12th at some point but also received gold medals in other years.

 

Have fun with the info.

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15 minutes ago, acolli17 said:

- Only four corps have ever improved on their semi's score in finals: '95 Magic of Orlando (+0.5), '99 Colts (+0.8), '05 Spirit (+0.325), and '14 Crossmen (+0.775).

Five if you count Crossmen '15 (though their score drop in semis was due to a penalty).

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36 minutes ago, ftwdrummer said:

Five if you count Crossmen '15 (though their score drop in semis was due to a penalty).

I just went off of the scores I found for each final score, I hadn’t taken penalties into account. I was never aware that happened, that sucks

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Just now, acolli17 said:

I just went off of the scores I found for each final score, I hadn’t taken penalties into account. I was never aware that happened, that sucks

In Yea Olden Days, dropped equipment was a 0.1 penalty, recorded in a special place on field judges sheet.  The reasoning was that any field judge could then return the equipment, and mark the error.  As brass & percussion didn't have a place for what was a M&M error, it was recorded a penalty.   But at its core there error was a tick.

Other penalties were assessed for going over-time (or under-time), boundary violations, and being late for your performance.

Also, the penalties are already worked into the final score.

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Just now, IllianaLancerContra said:

In Yea Olden Days, dropped equipment was a 0.1 penalty, recorded in a special place on field judges sheet.  The reasoning was that any field judge could then return the equipment, and mark the error.  As brass & percussion didn't have a place for what was a M&M error, it was recorded a penalty.   But at its core there error was a tick.

Other penalties were assessed for going over-time (or under-time), boundary violations, and being late for your performance.

Also, the penalties are already worked into the final score.

I can’t decide if I love or hate that. 

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5 minutes ago, acolli17 said:

I can’t decide if I love or hate that. 

The theory was that it was so the mistake would only be recorded once & then the equipment would be given back to the performer.  BTW, if the performer retrieved their own dropped equipment (& was caught doing it) that was a 0.5 penalty.

It was a different philosophy in a different era.

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In semifinals you have a lot of corps that push the scores up because no matter where the judges start the scoring the spreads will push things upward. Then in Finals that corps that places 12th is now the first corps to perform. The judges start from scratch and evaluate according to how that corps performs that night with no spread to consider until the corps that follow the 12th place unit. That's a generalization but I have always felt that's why the score is sometimes a little lower than it was in Semifinals. I was not aware of the 9.5 drop by Guardsmen back in the day but Terri may have some info there. 

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@Terri Schehr please pick up the white courtesy phone.  

I'm curious about that too.   I mean either a judge decided EVERYTHING was a tick finals night or someone had a meltdown run?  Did other scores deflate that year as well?

I'm used to scores deflating about a point or so as judges want to leave more wiggle room at the top in the build up system we have now, but that's quite the hit.  

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4 minutes ago, KVG_DC said:

@Terri Schehr please pick up the white courtesy phone.  

I'm curious about that too.   I mean either a judge decided EVERYTHING was a tick finals night or someone had a meltdown run?  Did other scores deflate that year as well?

I'm used to scores deflating about a point or so as judges want to leave more wiggle room at the top in the build up system we have now, but that's quite the hit.  

Lol thanks for your confidence in me but I have no idea what they’re doing.  The scores pop in three days in the most magical way.

 tenor.gif

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