cfirwin3 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 (edited) I posted several videos to YouTube years ago drawing comparisons between the 1990s era and more contemporary programs in DCI. In those videos, I focused on how writing responsibilities have not changed between the past and the present. In spite of my honest deep dive into the subject, and many folks that understood the point of the exercise... several, very vocal people flamed me for (as they saw it) disrespecting and misrepresenting the past. Here is a new video that goes out to all of them, and to all of you, for your viewing and listening pleasure: BD 1993 Review. One of my all time favorite programs. Enjoy! -Carl Edited October 18, 2022 by cfirwin3 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waliman4444 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Don Ellis was one of my favorite composers..He also had great chops!..So when BD performed his music, I became a fan for life ( even though Garfield was my aesthetic at that point in time)..Thank you for great memories..The more things change the more they stay the same(said my late mother)..Talent levels are still thru the roof and marching demands are still challenging..Just a wider palette to choose from..peace 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 The show that got me really in to DCI for the first time. I had been a casual fan for a couple years before that, but 93 in Cali was the first time I saw DCI live. I remember being floored by the Cavies on that June or July day in 93, but then BD came out and I went from floored to dumbfounded. The power of that hornline hit me hard and the small ensemble stuff in Strawberry Soup added up to a degree of showmanship and musicianship that I'd never experienced and will never forget. Thanks @cfirwin3. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 ...not going to go through this again. I'm not going to watch these types of controversial videos anymore because we all have valid points and varying opinions. That was a great show done on fully chromatic G instruments, whose construction quality was not on par with concert instruments. BD was great that year, and I thoroughly enjoyed one of the all time greatest productions with superb brass playing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 (edited) i'll never understand the arguments about which era is "better" or what types of drill/choreography/whatever writing are "harder" and all that stuff. what's the prize for winning that argument? it just comes down to trying to invalidate somebody else's joy which is actually pathological. Edited October 18, 2022 by Lance 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted October 18, 2022 Author Share Posted October 18, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, jjeffeory said: ...not going to go through this again. I'm not going to watch these types of controversial videos anymore because we all have valid points and varying opinions. That was a great show done on fully chromatic G instruments, whose construction quality was not on par with concert instruments. BD was great that year, and I thoroughly enjoyed one of the all time greatest productions with superb brass playing. For the life of me, I cannot see what you find so controversial about this?... or any of the other analysis videos. I truly have an open ear to complaints, but I am convinced that you may perceive that I am suggesting things that I am not. Is it really just the opinion that the Kanstul G horns were poorly built?... or that G made them problematic? There is an ocean of other-keyed instruments out there that music students play on (C, D, Eb, F, A, Mixed/Triggered...) I don't get it. My experience with the Kanstul 3 valve horns was that they played in tune and had the kind of trigger controls that I would expect. They simply became unnecessary with the addition of valves and their lifespan ended in about 10 years time. I don't think it was ever a matter of quality. I'm truly perplexed at the assertion of controversy. I'm not... controversial. I try to be anti-controversial. Edited October 18, 2022 by cfirwin3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 44 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: For the life of me, I cannot see what you find so controversial about this?... or any of the other analysis videos. I truly have an open ear to complaints, but I am convinced that you may perceive that I am suggesting things that I am not. Is it really just the opinion that the Kanstul G horns were poorly built?... or that G made them problematic? There is an ocean of other-keyed instruments out there that music students play on (C, D, Eb, F, A, Mixed/Triggered...) I don't get it. My experience with the Kanstul 3 valve horns was that they played in tune and had the kind of trigger controls that I would expect. They simply became unnecessary with the addition of valves and their lifespan ended in about 10 years time. I don't think it was ever a matter of quality. I'm truly perplexed at the assertion of controversy. I'm not... controversial. I try to be anti-controversial. The G instruments were not made as well as concert horns. It was one of the reasons used to sell the drumcorps community on the need to go any key. The argument was that the G instruments didn't have the build quality to match the quality of sound that the mainstream concert instruments could produce because the factories didn't sell enough of the G horns to invest in the technology to produce higher quality G instruments. It was a slippery slope that resulted in those instruments being phased out by the early 2000s. I recall comments made in a Star video in particular that dismissed or minimized the difficulty in playing on the old horns. It really came across differenty than what was probably intended, but some of us had counter opinions and criticisms on what was being compared and given credit versus things that were not. At any rate, I do hope people enjoy your videos in the spirit that you intended them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted October 18, 2022 Author Share Posted October 18, 2022 22 minutes ago, jjeffeory said: The G instruments were not made as well as concert horns. It was one of the reasons used to sell the drumcorps community on the need to go any key. The argument was that the G instruments didn't have the build quality to match the quality of sound that the mainstream concert instruments could produce because the factories didn't sell enough of the G horns to invest in the technology to produce higher quality G instruments. It was a slippery slope that resulted in those instruments being phased out by the early 2000s. I recall comments made in a Star video in particular that dismissed or minimized the difficulty in playing on the old horns. It really came across differenty than what was probably intended, but some of us had counter opinions and criticisms on what was being compared and given credit versus things that were not. At any rate, I do hope people enjoy your videos in the spirit that you intended them. My comments were/are an honest appraisal regarding how and why parts are written for hornlines... then and now. I never said it was easy, but I always maintain that programs are written to be accessible to the needs of the show and to the members that have to play it. In every case I appraised the programs as top notch examples... I think people brought in fighting gloves but there was never a reason for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 52 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: My comments were/are an honest appraisal regarding how and why parts are written for hornlines... then and now. I never said it was easy, but I always maintain that programs are written to be accessible to the needs of the show and to the members that have to play it. In every case I appraised the programs as top notch examples... I think people brought in fighting gloves but there was never a reason for it. I mean, I love ALL DCI lines. Your era in the early 2Ks had some utterly fantastic playing and those lines just before you masterfully transitioned from G to Bb. The G lines sizzled like only a few lines have recently, and the overtone series and key made for some magical sounds, especially in this '93 BD show. The modern, concert lines sound amazing and are blended really well. The modern blend of the whole corps sound is pretty different though with all the instruments in the pit. I'll leave the rest of the analysis about what's more difficult and effective to others though, but I very much respect and enjoy those golden age shows as much as what came afterwards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted October 18, 2022 Author Share Posted October 18, 2022 48 minutes ago, jjeffeory said: I mean, I love ALL DCI lines. Your era in the early 2Ks had some utterly fantastic playing and those lines just before you masterfully transitioned from G to Bb. The G lines sizzled like only a few lines have recently, and the overtone series and key made for some magical sounds, especially in this '93 BD show. The modern, concert lines sound amazing and are blended really well. The modern blend of the whole corps sound is pretty different though with all the instruments in the pit. I'll leave the rest of the analysis about what's more difficult and effective to others though, but I very much respect and enjoy those golden age shows as much as what came afterwards. I recall talking to Doug Thrower at Bloo back in the day and asking him about getting on the Bb bandwagon. He said that they were waiting for the others to iron out the issues with the new lines and instrument combos before investing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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