2023 Drums

[Weaklefthand4ever]

19 minutes ago, gbass598 said:

I used Ludwig in college. The new Ludwig drums BD use are REALLY Good. I takes away the bitter taste of what I had to play on in the 90’s.

Yes old Ludwig Challenger. Aptly named because it was a challenge to keep them in tune for more than 5 minutes. I can tell you there were MANY a collapsed shell at Spirit Camps in the late 80s. Double and triple hooping Kevlar = bad day for ludwig drums.

[resipsaloquitur]

6 hours ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:

Yes old Ludwig Challenger. Aptly named because it was a challenge to keep them in tune for more than 5 minutes. I can tell you there were MANY a collapsed shell at Spirit Camps in the late 80s. Double and triple hooping Kevlar = bad day for ludwig drums.

I was a roadie in the mid-80s and saw the Ludwigs used by Quiet Riot, Def Leppard, others. I always believed them had more heft and were more "beefier" for lack of a better word than other brands. I personally played on Tamas. Now, not being in the activity anymore, if that were still true, doesn't it make marching on the move harder? Or are marching drums something Ludwig has refined just for marching.

[gbass598]

3 hours ago, resipsaloquitur said:

I was a roadie in the mid-80s and saw the Ludwigs used by Quiet Riot, Def Leppard, others. I always believed them had more heft and were more "beefier" for lack of a better word than other brands. I personally played on Tamas. Now, not being in the activity anymore, if that were still true, doesn't it make marching on the move harder? Or are marching drums something Ludwig has refined just for marching.

Aluminum is a lot more prevalent today on hardware. Ludwig Classic Maple snares are 7 ply. The new Ultimate Snare Drum is 8 ply and obviously deeper depth. Heavier by default but many accommodations have been made in the hardware. Full size marching snares today run between 14.5 and 15 lbs.

Long story short, drums themselves aren't really heavy. it's the hardware that really adds the weight. Unless of course someone was playing an old Ludwig Stainless Steel kit like John Bonham did at the end. Those would survive a hurricane.

Edited June 22, 2023 by gbass598

[Weaklefthand4ever]

43 minutes ago, gbass598 said:

Aluminum is a lot more prevalent today on hardware. Ludwig Classic Maple snares are 7 ply. The new Ultimate Snare Drum is 8 ply and obviously deeper depth. Heavier by default but many accommodations have been made in the hardware. Full size marching snares today run between 14.5 and 15 lbs.

Long story short, drums themselves aren't really heavy. it's the hardware that really adds the weight. Unless of course someone was playing an old Ludwig Stainless Steel kit like John Bonham did at the end. Those would survive a hurricane.

All very true. The old 80s challengers weren't really any heavier than the Pearl Criterions were. I feel like the Yamahas were maybe a tad lighter and the Premier Resonators were a good bit lighter. The biggest beef I had with Ludwig Challengers was the snare strainer. It was horrid to tune and the cam would wear out half way through the season. 

Drum set wise, Ludwig sets were pretty darn good. Big sound, lots of size options and just REALLY consistent from set to set. 

Hardware is definitely where the weight comes in. Tamas marching snares are the new beast weight wise IMHO. Heavier than Dynasty. Pearl and Yamaha haven't changed much in many years. Yeah yeah yeah carbon fiber blah blah blah. I tinker with a LOT of carbon fiber because I build low deflection pool cue shafts with it. It sounds like.....well....nothing. It has no tone, no warmth and no feel. It's a dead material. But we have to remember we're playing on table tops now so tone isn't that crucial. 

Now the WORST material ever was good ol' Vistalite. A close second goes to North and Stingray for bringing us the hell that is fiberglass. That's my vision of hell. 6th grade drumlines outfitted with an entire battery of Remo Legato drums. /shiver

[gbass598]

2 hours ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:

All very true. The old 80s challengers weren't really any heavier than the Pearl Criterions were. I feel like the Yamahas were maybe a tad lighter and the Premier Resonators were a good bit lighter. The biggest beef I had with Ludwig Challengers was the snare strainer. It was horrid to tune and the cam would wear out half way through the season. 

Drum set wise, Ludwig sets were pretty darn good. Big sound, lots of size options and just REALLY consistent from set to set. 

Hardware is definitely where the weight comes in. Tamas marching snares are the new beast weight wise IMHO. Heavier than Dynasty. Pearl and Yamaha haven't changed much in many years. Yeah yeah yeah carbon fiber blah blah blah. I tinker with a LOT of carbon fiber because I build low deflection pool cue shafts with it. It sounds like.....well....nothing. It has no tone, no warmth and no feel. It's a dead material. But we have to remember we're playing on table tops now so tone isn't that crucial. 

Now the WORST material ever was good ol' Vistalite. A close second goes to North and Stingray for bringing us the hell that is fiberglass. That's my vision of hell. 6th grade drumlines outfitted with an entire battery of Remo Legato drums. /shiver

Tama has done a lot to make them lighter. The 14x12 snare is 14.2 lbs. Probably the lightest I can find spec for online for drum that size.

The Yamaha 9414 snare drum is 15.2, Pearl is 14.5 and the Dynasty Custom Elite is 16.4 (!?!?!?!?!) for comparison.

[Weaklefthand4ever]

9 hours ago, gbass598 said:

Tama has done a lot to make them lighter. The 14x12 snare is 14.2 lbs. Probably the lightest I can find spec for online for drum that size.

The Yamaha 9414 snare drum is 15.2, Pearl is 14.5 and the Dynasty Custom Elite is 16.4 (!?!?!?!?!) for comparison.

Well at least I got the die-nasty correct. That's awesome to hear that the Tamas are coming in light. You really don't need much shell strength with free floaters. Beech and Birch would make far more sense than Maple. They are light and very resonant. Plus I would almost be willing go bet that any Maple used for plys would be soft maple. Hardness wise they're probably within 200 of being the same on the janka scale (sorry I am not going to look it up.) But weight wise maple if far heavier. Maybe they've gone to all Birch and Beech shells by now. I'm way behind in my drum building chops.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Weaklefthand4ever

[resipsaloquitur]

5 hours ago, gbass598 said:

Aluminum is a lot more prevalent today on hardware. Ludwig Classic Maple snares are 7 ply. The new Ultimate Snare Drum is 8 ply and obviously deeper depth. Heavier by default but many accommodations have been made in the hardware. Full size marching snares today run between 14.5 and 15 lbs.

Long story short, drums themselves aren't really heavy. it's the hardware that really adds the weight. Unless of course someone was playing an old Ludwig Stainless Steel kit like John Bonham did at the end. Those would survive a hurricane.

Found this clip online. At least, it looks like the modern Ludwigs are hella fun to play on. 

 

[Weaklefthand4ever]

8 hours ago, resipsaloquitur said:

Found this clip online. At least, it looks like the modern Ludwigs are hella fun to play on. 

 

Those quads look ugantic! Pretty good sound though if you're a fan of BD's tuning. 

[keystone3ply]

23 hours ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:

P.S. - Show of hands, how many of us used contact paper to "re-skin" the drums with one of our high school lines we taught because we had a budget of $19.73 for the entire season

Yup, HS in the late 70s early 80s.  We had Ludwig stainless steel over fiberglass or the white "vistalite" before we received new drums. (Heavy!)  Like all the great DCI lines, we had to have white drums so I covered them all with white contact shelf paper.  The contact paper held up well if you took care of them, cased, etc... 🙋‍♂️  

[gbass598]

9 hours ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:

Well at least I got the die-nasty correct. That's awesome to hear that the Tamas are coming in light. You really don't need much shell strength with free floaters. Beech and Birch would make far more sense than Maple. They are light and very resonant. Plus I would almost be willing go bet that any Maple used for plys would be soft maple. Hardness wise they're probably within 200 of being the same on the janka scale (sorry I am not going to look it up.) But weight wise maple if far heavier. Maybe they've gone to all Birch and Beech shells by now. I'm way behind in my drum building chops.

Everything is still maple. IMO birch and beech are to high frequency to be effective. Maple is pretty full spectrum on the sound and easily obtainable.

Mapex uses an inner ply of walnut on their tenors. Tama did have a birch/bubinga option when they first launched but it has been discontinued most likely due to import restrictions on bubinga.

Premier uses birch exclusively if I recall. I’m waiting to see and hear new prototypes of their marching stuff. I’m hoping to do a side by side comparison with my school’s Pearl Carboncore.