Brass Ensemble Amplification

[Chief Guns]

22 minutes ago, DAvery said:

But did they perform at the same level? 

Unfortunately I am not qualified to answer that. I was at those shows, and from my untrained eye, I came away very impressed with Impulse, and thought BKs guard was very shaky. But that means absolutely nothing.

Honestly I would defer to @scheherazadesghost to watch the vids and give her professional opinion on those two guards. 

 

[Mr_Moto]

22 hours ago, bluesman said:

I've watched or marched drum corps since 1977 and never had a problem hearing the soloist.  Hearing a soloist when the brass line is as FFF is usually just off-putting. It seems that mic'ing the soloist is more about creating studio style effects than it is about making them heard.

I do think that mic’ing soloists and small ensembles makes sense, as it allows them to play with more nuance and musicality than was previously available when everything was solely acoustic. I agree that just micing sections of the hornline in order to amplify only a few individuals is garbage, and needs to go. 

They really need to re-evaluate the judging sheets for achievement to take these things into account, as we’re seeing less and less technicality in the full hornline, and less content (length of time playing) from the horn lines as more demand gets laid on soloists and small groups to play to the judging sheets. 

[Sh0uldN0t]

20 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

you judge what you see and hear. the sheets don't have tallies for how many did what

No doubt. And my point precisely. The brass judges' scores for SCV in 2017 reflected what they heard when those scores should have reflected the fact that the majority of the brass wasn't executing at a level at all consistent with the mic'd players. I'd go so far as to suggest the GE judges and music analysis also didn't properly differentiate. 

This isn't a problem for the programs. This is a problem for the competition. Judges aren't comparing apples to apples. 

We all know corps for years have made "tics" sit out entire passages or even the entire book. This reverses that old competitive crutch. It's too easy now to relegate most of the brass line to music tics. I could live with that if the scoring acknowledged what's happening. 

[scheherazadesghost]

2 hours ago, Chief Guns said:

Unfortunately I am not qualified to answer that. I was at those shows, and from my untrained eye, I came away very impressed with Impulse, and thought BKs guard was very shaky. But that means absolutely nothing.

Honestly I would defer to @scheherazadesghost to watch the vids and give her professional opinion on those two guards.

I just missed BK at the SA regional for an excellent phone with a fellow alum. Just haven't caught Impulse yet. Happy to peep some recipes and give my thoughts.

Anyone with the freshest recipes is welcome to hit up my inbox.

[Jeff Ream]

6 hours ago, DAvery said:

But don't they have a sub-caption for achievement? It would seem to me that 24 trumpets playing a lick would have a higher achievement score than 24 trumpets with 4 mic-ed playing the same lick. Which scenario would have higher achievement? Achievement should reward the players. I mean in the drum world if a snare line of 2 and a snare line of 9 play at the same level, I would expect the larger snare line to have a higher achievement score. 

yup. achievement is how well they perform. you're thinking of demand/content in your argument

[Jeff Ream]

3 hours ago, Sh0uldN0t said:

No doubt. And my point precisely. The brass judges' scores for SCV in 2017 reflected what they heard when those scores should have reflected the fact that the majority of the brass wasn't executing at a level at all consistent with the mic'd players. I'd go so far as to suggest the GE judges and music analysis also didn't properly differentiate. 

This isn't a problem for the programs. This is a problem for the competition. Judges aren't comparing apples to apples. 

We all know corps for years have made "tics" sit out entire passages or even the entire book. This reverses that old competitive crutch. It's too easy now to relegate most of the brass line to music tics. I could live with that if the scoring acknowledged what's happening. 

GE doesn't count how many solists are mic'd. was it designed well and communicated well? did it work thematically? thats what GE is about

[DAvery]

3 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

yup. achievement is how well they perform. you're thinking of demand/content in your argument

This is why I am trying to find the sheets. Where would demand be measured in the score? 

[Sh0uldN0t]

18 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

GE doesn't count how many solists are mic'd. was it designed well and communicated well? did it work thematically? thats what GE is about

I do understand that. And surely you understand that "communicated well" has to account for how the performers communicate the content. Judges needn't count mics to notice when only small subset of the corps is communicating most of the program while the rest are contributing less. It was obvious to most in the stands. 

There are two corps. One asks nearly everyone to carry responsibility for communicating the program to judges and the crowd. The other puts the responsibility on just a few. All else is equal. Same score? I don't think so.

Let me put it another way. One corps uses one tuba player and electronics to generate 100% of the tuba sounds. Another uses 16 tuba players to create the same sound. Same score? I don't think so.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Sh0uldN0t

[DAvery]

3 hours ago, Sh0uldN0t said:

I do understand that. And surely you understand that "communicated well" has to account for how the performers communicate the content. Judges needn't count mics to notice when only small subset of the corps is communicating most of the program while the rest are contributing less. It was obvious to most in the stands. 

There are two corps. One asks nearly everyone to carry responsibility for communicating the program to judges and the crowd. The other puts the responsibility on just a few. All else is equal. Same score? I don't think so.

Let me put it another way. One corps uses one tuba player and electronics to generate 100% of the tuba sounds. Another uses 16 tuba players to create the same sound. Same score? I don't think so.

I agree, but where should this show up on the sheets? 

[Sh0uldN0t]

It should show up across the sheets as judges credit the corps where demand, exposure, communication or whatever you care to call it is shared by more corps members. A high demand passage played by all the brass is more impressive than the same passage played only by some. Or a rifle toss. Or high-speed maneuver. This should be implicit.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Sh0uldN0t