IllianaLancerContra Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Vuitton said: Wow. I finally, I can say "I wasn't alive then" to something. YIPPIE. I wasn't alive in the 60s, but if you ever just want to share any story, and I mean any story, you are always more than welcome to message me. It was the era of many Corps, so at big contests Corps performed 5-7 min ‘prelim shows, a shortened version usually consisting of opener, concert, drum solo (w/ different drill to get to closer formation) & closer. Judging then was heavily based on execution. At 1967 (?) VFW prelims Madison prelims show exploited the rules by getting everyone off field in 2 min except 2 bass drums who marked time until minimum time was met, so their execution scores were high. This was enough for them to make finals (12th)but they were initially DQ’d. They protested, pointing out that they hadn’t violated rules, & were reinstated. This pushed IC Reveries to 13th, out of finals. They protested by sneaking through gate & sitting on starting line until they were allowed to perform. Political fallout led to their disbanding, but some members & one parent, George Bonfiglio, weren’t ready to give up on Drum Corps, & 27th Lancers were born. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, TheOneWhoKnows said: I just think you need to take bias out of it. A favorite doesn’t mean it’s the best. Well since the corps I think is the best every year is not the same, I do not think it's bias. My favorite show this year is not what I think is the best show either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 6 minutes ago, ContraFart said: It doesn't matter, I have lost all faith in the concept of competition in this activity. I just have to accept the fact that BD is going to win and my favorite shows are going to lose and any knowledge I have after 30 years means nothing because I have no I idea what I am talking about. Your favorite shows aren’t losing, they are being outscored. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said: Indeed. I just throw my hands up as I always have and watch those who care way more than me (and likely the MMs themselves) bicker like the hummingbirds at my feeder this morning. 🤷🏽♀️ So you are in the hummingbird part of NM - cool birds 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuitton Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said: It was the era of many Corps, so at big contests Corps performed 5-7 min ‘prelim shows, a shortened version usually consisting of opener, concert, drum solo (w/ different drill to get to closer formation) & closer. Judging then was heavily based on execution. At 1967 (?) VFW prelims Madison prelims show exploited the rules by getting everyone off field in 2 min except 2 bass drums who marked time until minimum time was met, so their execution scores were high. This was enough for them to make finals (12th)but they were initially DQ’d. They protested, pointing out that they hadn’t violated rules, & were reinstated. This pushed IC Reveries to 13th, out of finals. They protested by sneaking through gate & sitting on starting line until they were allowed to perform. Political fallout led to their disbanding, but some members & one parent, George Bonfiglio, weren’t ready to give up on Drum Corps, & 27th Lancers were born. That is fascinating. Thank you so much for sharing. It's so sad 27 isn't still around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dpsouthern81 Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 5 minutes ago, KVG_DC said: Apparently the rebroadcast of semis doesn't work on iOS. Yep. Get the error message that I don’t have permission to access the stream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkHornGA Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 13 minutes ago, ContraFart said: 7 out of 11 judges, judge either effect or analysis. Should design have this much weight on the score? I think this is a complex question. It’s not that black and white to me. Everyone who participates in DCI at any level of the organization knows that it is a competitive activity. I enjoy it for the whole product and don't usually care much who wins or loses. But I am also a casual observer. For those deeply involved, the motivations are likely varied. Some might care more about winning, others might be in it more for the experience of learning, growing and teaching. I imagine it's a bit of all. Design, which also includes music, being weighted so heavily has created a situation where corps are innovating and pushing boundaries which is ultimately good for the activity in my opinion. Participants will learn more and grow more when asked to perform a show that pushes them out of their comfort zone. If design wasn't weighted as much, then you could argue that corps wouldn't emphasize design as much which could lead to some stagnating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuitton Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 9 minutes ago, ContraFart said: It doesn't matter, I have lost all faith in the concept of competition in this activity. I just have to accept the fact that BD is going to win and my favorite shows are going to lose and any knowledge I have after 30 years means nothing because I have no I idea what I am talking about. Finals night in 1988 is still one of the happiest days of my life. Winning was such a thrill. Being the best was such a thrill, until.... Until you, over time, realize that you just won a numbers game. Were we the best corps of '88? I think so. But I also think Vanguard was the best corps of '88. The numbers just worked in our favor. One judge scores us 0.1 lower and them 0.1 higher and we tie. One judge scores us 0.1 lower and them 0.2 higher and they win. Two corps in '88 were worthy champions. One corps is champion because of numbers. A lot of judging is subjective and it's always been that way. It is what it is. In close years, I think it could have gone any way. In non-close years, like 2023, I do not. To me, BD is clearly the best corps. Don't let the judging ruin it for you. I very rarely listen to a BD show. I listen to mostly Regiment, Cadets, Crown and Star. While listening to a show, I never think about what place it got. I think about how it made me feel seeing it live. Those are the memories. Like Garfield '85. I don't think about them winning, I think about how much was in complete awe of them. Same goes for many. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 6 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said: Your favorite shows aren’t losing, they are being outscored. ... within an imperfect judging system that has a tendency to reinforce some of the worst aspects of the activity the further you get away from high budgets. So rather than encouraging improvement and innovation, it sometimes does the opposite at the expense of member safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 8 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said: Your favorite shows aren’t losing, they are being outscored. Is it a competition? If they are being outscored they are losing. But I understand what you are trying to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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