DCI WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS SEMIFINALS

[ContraFart]

1 hour ago, Vuitton said:

Finals night in 1988 is still one of the happiest days of my life. Winning was such a thrill. Being the best was such a thrill, until.... Until you, over time, realize that you just won a numbers game. Were we the best corps of '88? I think so. But I also think Vanguard was the best corps of '88. The numbers just worked in our favor. One judge scores us 0.1 lower and them 0.1 higher and we tie. One judge scores us 0.1 lower and them 0.2 higher and they win. Two corps in '88 were worthy champions. One corps is champion because of numbers.

A lot of judging is subjective and it's always been that way. It is what it is. In close years, I think it could have gone any way. In non-close years, like 2023, I do not. To me, BD is clearly the best corps.

Don't let the judging ruin it for you. I very rarely listen to a BD show. I listen to mostly Regiment, Cadets, Crown and Star. While listening to a show, I never think about what place it got. I think about how it made me feel seeing it live. Those are the memories. Like Garfield '85. I don't think about them winning, I think about how much was in complete awe of them. Same goes for many.

I didn't feel this way about the Cavies run in the ots. I thought their shows were breathtaking. The drill was the coolest innovation in the activity I have ever seen. The percussion was sublime and while I never "loved" the horn books, I thought they fit the shows very well. 

There are a couple of things different about the Cavies run though. First I think while they were dominant, I believe 2002 was their only undefeated season. Second, Cadets and BD were always on their heels and won 3 or 4 times in that decade. It still always felt that there was an open competition that was up for grabs. The season wasn't over in Broken Arrow.

It doesn't feel like it's an open competition anymore. I feels like DCI belongs to BD and if anyone wants beat them, it would take something that changes the foundation of the activity (i.e. Bluecoats 2016 or SCV 2018). A universally loved and perfectly performed show won't do it anymore and it makes me sad

Edited August 12, 2023 by ContraFart

[ContraFart]

20 minutes ago, MarkHornGA said:

I think this is a complex question. It’s not that black and white to me. 
 

Everyone who participates in DCI at any level of the organization knows that it is a competitive activity. I enjoy it for the whole product and don't usually care much who wins or loses. But I am also a casual observer. For those deeply involved, the motivations are likely varied. Some might care more about winning, others might be in it more for the experience of learning, growing and teaching. I imagine it's a bit of all. 

Design, which also includes music, being weighted so heavily has created a situation where corps are innovating and pushing boundaries which is ultimately good for the activity in my opinion. Participants will learn more and grow more when asked to perform a show that pushes them out of their comfort zone. 

If design wasn't weighted as much, then you could argue that corps wouldn't emphasize design as much which could lead to some stagnating. 

I appreciate that perspective and it does give me something to think about, but there is still something about winning it on the field that means something to me. If 2015 Crown can lose it on the field, how come it now seems impossible to win it on the field?

[Mikah]

35 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

It was the era of many Corps, so at big contests Corps performed 5-7 min ‘prelim shows, a shortened version usually consisting of opener, concert, drum solo (w/ different drill to get to closer formation) & closer.  
 

Judging then was heavily based on execution.  At 1967 (?) VFW prelims Madison prelims show exploited the rules by getting everyone off field in 2 min except 2 bass drums who marked time until minimum time was met, so their execution scores were high.  This was enough for them to make finals (12th)but they were initially DQ’d.  They protested, pointing out that they hadn’t violated rules, & were  reinstated.  This pushed IC Reveries to 13th, out of finals.  They protested by sneaking through gate & sitting on starting line until they were allowed to perform.   Political fallout led to their disbanding, but some members & one parent, George Bonfiglio, weren’t ready to give up on Drum Corps, & 27th Lancers were born.  

Wow!  Thank you for sharing this story!  I had no clue.  My knowledge of DCI mainly comes from watching corps, on the small screen in the mid 1970's and from me marching in the early 1980's.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Mikah

[Vuitton]

10 minutes ago, ContraFart said:

It doesn't feel like it's an open competition anymore. I feels like DCI belongs to BD and if anyone wants beat them, it would take something that changes the foundation of the activity (i.e. Bluecoats 2016 or SCV 2018). A universally loved and perfectly performed show won't do it anymore and it makes me sad

Yeah, I've also been saying that all season - it takes a show like '08 Regiment, '11 Cadets, '13 Crown, '16 Bloo and '18 Vanguard to beat them and no one has one of those shows this year.

I thought BD (and Crown) out executed Bluecoats in 2016 but Bluecoats out-designed those two by 100 miles. They changed the activity for ever as it pertains to uniforming and prop usage. They deserved it.

BD is just so good that it takes one of those monumental shows to beat them and those shows only come around once every few years.

[ContraFart]

1 minute ago, Vuitton said:

Yeah, I've also been saying that all season - it takes a show like '08 Regiment, '11 Cadets, '13 Crown, '16 Bloo and '18 Vanguard to beat them and no one has one of those shows this year.

I thought BD (and Crown) out executed Bluecoats in 2016 but Bluecoats out-designed those two by 100 miles. They changed the activity for ever as it pertains to uniforming and prop usage. They deserved it.

BD is just so good that it takes one of those monumental shows to beat them and those shows only come around once every few years.

If that is the case, how is it a positive thing? 

 

[kdaddy]

26 minutes ago, Vuitton said:

it takes a show like '08 Regiment, '11 Cadets, '13 Crown, '16 Bloo and '18 Vanguard to beat them and no one has one of those shows this year.

At first glance, it looks like you're giving examples. But in reality, you listed the non-BD title winners since 08.

[2muchcoffeeman]

1 hour ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

It was the era of many Corps, so at big contests Corps performed 5-7 min ‘prelim shows, a shortened version usually consisting of opener, concert, drum solo (w/ different drill to get to closer formation) & closer.  
 

Judging then was heavily based on execution.  At 1967 (?) VFW prelims Madison prelims show exploited the rules by getting everyone off field in 2 min except 2 bass drums who marked time until minimum time was met, so their execution scores were high.  This was enough for them to make finals (12th)but they were initially DQ’d.  They protested, pointing out that they hadn’t violated rules, & were  reinstated.  This pushed IC Reveries to 13th, out of finals.  They protested by sneaking through gate & sitting on starting line until they were allowed to perform.   Political fallout led to their disbanding, but some members & one parent, George Bonfiglio, weren’t ready to give up on Drum Corps, & 27th Lancers were born.  

I'm a dino and I never knew this. A story like this is good for the drum-corps soul — a reminder that it ain't science; it's art, and it's messy, full of emotion and sweat and tears, and the attempt to reduce all that to a number, however necessary, is a fraught game. I think Colts are pretty solidly in 9th, especially since the gap over Troopers widened slightly at semis, and so it will take their best run of the year tonight, something that they pull out of their own deep internal selves — as well as other events outside their control — for Troopers to have any shot at moving up. Is it possible? Certainly. If it were impossible, they wouldn't even bother with a contest tonight. But even if it doesn't happen — and the odds are against it — Colts and Troop are best buds and they'll each congratulate the other on a season of substantial growth and advancement, and the numbers will soon be lost to memory. What they'll remember is the emotion, the sweat, the tears, and the sound of the crowd.

The desire to connect to such a powerful, transforming force was able to create 27th Lancers, an entirely new corps. That desire continues to produce new generations of performers. The numbers animate the pursuit of excellence; but it's the excellence, not the numbers, that linger.

Edited August 12, 2023 by 2muchcoffeeman

[Triple Forte]

1 hour ago, MarkHornGA said:

If design wasn't weighted as much, then you could argue that corps wouldn't emphasize design as much which could lead to some stagnating. 

I don’t think stagnation would happen because corps and designers are always going  to the want to have the best and most clever ideas and design.

The members of the corps are putting in the most effort by far and that’s where the focus of the scoring should be ;  on the members efforts not the designers 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Triple Forte

[Vuitton]

39 minutes ago, kdaddy said:

At first glance, it looks like you're giving examples. But in reality, you listed the non-BD title winners since 08.

Yes, both are true. I'm giving samples of the kind of shows it takes to beat BD because those are the only shows that have beaten them since 2006. And, no one has one of those shows this year. No one. That's the point I've been trying to make for weeks.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Vuitton

[2muchcoffeeman]

7 minutes ago, Vuitton said:

Yes, both are true. I'm giving samples of the kind of shows it takes to beat BD because those are the only shows that have beaten them since 2006. And, no one has one of those shows this year. No one. That's the point I've been trying to make for weeks.

Kinda funny: It takes an out-of-the box production to beat BD. Then BD goes back to beating everyone from within the box. No one else is allowed to win from within the box. A weird reality.