What is wrong with US?

[Terri Schehr]

9 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said:

Some people can't remove themselves from the mindset that "quiet" is synonymous with "good" and that "loud" is never acceptable. I mean this without any disrespect, but it seems to be a generational issue (this is backed up by a lot of psychiatric research, so don't come for me). 

I’m old but I’m definitely not quiet.  I was even worse when I was younger. I use my name on here.  So does @Jeff Ream. 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Terri Schehr

[Slingerland]

There are a several key issues that are biting away at the activity's ability to be self-sufficient and secure, and the solutions are easy to name, but difficult to implement.

1. It's hard to manage an activity with this many moving pieces without professional paid staff. Being on the road and in spring training for 11 weeks can't be done with moms and dads volunteering to do much of the work every day since moms and dads have to, y'know, hold down jobs. So the National Touring Model requires dozens of people around each corps, each of whom will need to get paid something for their time and effort, in order to make the model work.

2. But WITHOUT interested parents involved (on the busses, at the housing sites, AROUND the members every single moment of the day), the possibility for bad actors among the members and the adults to do harm increases in likelihood. Would the horror show of SOA's "talent night" have gone on if a couple of dads were on that bus? Highly unlikely. 

3. So the issue could be solved with more, professionally trained and qualified adults. But drum corps people don't provide nearly enough financial support to the activity to make it possible to hire professional staff at the levels that would be needed to make that possible. You would think that with tens of thousands of drum corps alums out there that ponying up $15-20 million a year in direct support for corps wouldn't be a big deal, but the giving numbers for drum corps alums are a tiny fraction of that number.  

Why? I don't know. For me, it's a primary focus of charitable giving (multiple corps supported), but dozens of people I marched with don't support any org, even though they still go see shows so are aware of what's what. But until the alums of the activity get involved either as volunteers or as active, engaged donors so that others can be paid to do the work that volunteers can't, it's not gonna get fixed.

[GUARDLING]

3 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

i agree.......and don't agree.

 

sadly talking to those in charge often gets you sunshine and roses answers or flat out ignored. there's some transparency in some places, but drum corps has proven time and time again to be reactionary only after the worst possible case scenarios unfold. sadly too many good intentioned people refuse to open up to let people help, and try to control everything, and make it worse. and in this day and age with lawsuits flying hourly, and it seems the statutes of limitations being widened to bring old wounds forward, airing laundry sometimes is sadly the only way to get change and transparency to happen.

 

it's a double edged sword indeed.  but until the corps themselves get ahead of #### before it breaks and be open, it's the world we live in today. if you think it's bad here, check out Reddit

You're right but even then ,where information comes from on either side is only as good as those giving it.  Not to re- litigate as certain director and his boundary  issues , the same people who exposed him ( which was a good thing ) are the same who kissed his butt for decades, in the inner circle, supported and defended, encouraged and stood by his side and it was only when he no longer needed them ( no surprise there )  there were private meetings on how to take him down. One can maybe say , " Well maybe they didn't now " unlikely IMO how do you spend decades , that closely and not know, there's always signs within someones behavior if one chooses to see it. These predators can for sure be very crafty hiding who they are BUT I always say when someone shows themselves as to who they really are BELIEVE THEM., and this particular person always showed who they were.

Haven't we always  seen those appearing to have all good intentions, claim to have some kind of inside knowledge, shouting from the roof tops. This does not diminish the importance of ANY alleged victim of ANY situation to be heard BUT must be backed by fact. Now a days as others have said it's always shoot first. I hate to whistle blower  term as much as I hate the woke word but with that said " whistleblowers should always be heard ALWAYS, be taken seriously ALWAYS, met with compassion and concern ALWAYS ,but ALWAYS be based in fact. Whistleblowers lately has gotten a bad name mainly because many who you see on TV meeting at times with congress have mostly been debunked or found out to be having their own legal issues. Why do they do this ? who knows! but there has been alot of it lately. Even with that , even with fact against them , even debunked there are always those who want to believe it or even have a reason . IMO it's a sign of the times where the legit " Whistleblower" can't be heard or taken seriously because of the  other" whistleblower" who does what they do for whatever reason..

Transparency is always a good thing, Shinning a light can always be a good thing, those who shine the light  can always make a difference, good or bad, reputable or not so much, the problem becomes , as we have seen  on TV ,can we tell the difference. For sure a problem for those doing their best to do the right thing or be heard. A sad view of our times.

AS the original poster said in the title "What is wrong with us " says it all about the days we live in. I have my own opinion how it all started but that's another topic not allowed here..lol🙂

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by GUARDLING

[scheherazadesghost]

20 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

You're right but even then ,where information comes from on either side is only as good as those giving it.  Not to re- litigate as certain director and his boundary  issues , the same people who exposed him ( which was a good thing ) are the same who kissed his butt for decades, in the inner circle, supported and defended, encouraged and stood by his side and it was only when he no longer needed them ( no surprise there )  there were private meetings on how to take him down. One can maybe say , " Well maybe they didn't now " unlikely IMO how do you spend decades , that closely and not know, there's always signs within someones behavior if one chooses to see it. These predators can for sure be very crafty hiding who they are BUT I always say when someone shows themselves as to who they really are BELIEVE THEM., and this particular person always showed who they were.

Haven't we always  seen those appearing to have all good intentions, claim to have some kind of inside knowledge, shouting from the roof tops. This does not diminish the importance of ANY alleged victim of ANY situation to be heard BUT must be backed by fact. Now a days as others have said it's always shoot first. I hate to whistle blower  term as much as I hate the woke word but with that said " whistleblowers should always be heard ALWAYS, be taken seriously ALWAYS, met with compassion and concern ALWAYS but ALWAYS be based in fact. Whistleblowers lately has gotten a bad name mainly because many who you see on TV meeting at times with congress have mostly been debunked or found out to be having their own legal issues. Why do they do this ? who knows! but there has been alot of it lately. Even with that , even with fact against them , even debunked there are always those who want to believe it or even have a reason . IMO it's a sign of the times where the legit " Whistleblower" can't be heard or taken seriously because of the " whistleblower" who does what they do for whatever reason..

Transparency is always a good thing, Shinning a light can always be a good thing, those who shine the light or shine the light can always make a difference, good or bad, reputable or not so much, the problem becomes , as we have seen  on TV ,can we tell the difference. For sure a problem for those doing their best to do the right thing or be heard. A sad view of our times.

AS the original poster said in the title "What is wrong with us " says it all about the days we live it. I have my own opinion how it all started but that's another topic not allowed here..lol🙂

 

More info on blowing the whistle in bad faith:

https://yourvoiceprotected.ca/a-brief-guide-to-good-whistleblowing-and-bad-faith/

https://www.springhouselaw.com/knowledge/what-happens-if-a-whistleblower-is-wrong

Also, for everyone, keep in mind that if the policies and procedures were clearly outlined and followed, you wouldn't have the appearance of whistleblowers in drum corps sharing info in a way you don't like. They would be heard, their claims investigated, and best practices updated accordingly. I'm trying to tell everyone that's not happening across the board. Thus the appearance of ready, fire, aim.

Edited October 25, 2023 by scheherazadesghost
more phone typos

[MarimbaManiac]

20 minutes ago, Slingerland said:

There are a several key issues that are biting away at the activity's ability to be self-sufficient and secure, and the solutions are easy to name, but difficult to implement.

1. It's hard to manage an activity with this many moving pieces without professional paid staff. Being on the road and in spring training for 11 weeks can't be done with moms and dads volunteering to do much of the work every day since moms and dads have to, y'know, hold down jobs. So the National Touring Model requires dozens of people around each corps, each of whom will need to get paid something for their time and effort, in order to make the model work.

2. But WITHOUT interested parents involved (on the busses, at the housing sites, AROUND the members every single moment of the day), the possibility for bad actors among the members and the adults to do harm increases in likelihood. Would the horror show of SOA's "talent night" have gone on if a couple of dads were on that bus? Highly unlikely. 

3. So the issue could be solved with more, professionally trained and qualified adults. But drum corps people don't provide nearly enough financial support to the activity to make it possible to hire professional staff at the levels that would be needed to make that possible. You would think that with tens of thousands of drum corps alums out there that ponying up $15-20 million a year in direct support for corps wouldn't be a big deal, but the giving numbers for drum corps alums are a tiny fraction of that number.  

Why? I don't know. For me, it's a primary focus of charitable giving (multiple corps supported), but dozens of people I marched with don't support any org, even though they still go see shows so are aware of what's what. But until the alums of the activity get involved either as volunteers or as active, engaged donors so that others can be paid to do the work that volunteers can't, it's not gonna get fixed.

Yeah, this is a BIG one. Corps, even the biggest ones, have got by for decades on hiring an army of early career staff who basically work for pennies an hour. For every Paul Rennick, there are a dozen low paid techs who float in and out during the season basically working for "experience and exposure."

That does not create a stable foundation with which to provide adequate supervision and support throughout a 3-4 month season. 

Maybe this was effectively in the 70s-80s when someone could survive on gas and lunch money, but the world is more expensive, and more complex, and there are very few people who are in situations to make that work. Inevitably that usually means "staff" are only a year or two removed from being marching members themselves, which again doesn't result in a solid foundation of supervision. 

Honestly I feel like we're reaching a tipping point in the activity as a whole. Corps need to start investing in staff members as employees, building a sustainable culture and knowledge base that's more market resistant with more accountability. Tours will need to be shorter, with more time and focus on "in residence" rehearsals in the corps locality. That of course means recruiting locally instead of out of a national talent pool, and placing visiting members in local members homes. DCI absolutely needs to become more of a regulatory force both operationally and financially, holding corps accountable if they want to participate in the tour. 

All of this is a BIG change, but the message needs to start becoming clear that business as usual just isn't going to work anymore, and if the activity wants to survive the next generation it has to start evolving.

[Terri Schehr]

44 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

You're right but even then ,where information comes from on either side is only as good as those giving it.  Not to re- litigate as certain director and his boundary  issues , the same people who exposed him ( which was a good thing ) are the same who kissed his butt for decades, in the inner circle, supported and defended, encouraged and stood by his side and it was only when he no longer needed them ( no surprise there )  there were private meetings on how to take him down. One can maybe say , " Well maybe they didn't now " unlikely IMO how do you spend decades , that closely and not know, there's always signs within someones behavior if one chooses to see it. These predators can for sure be very crafty hiding who they are BUT I always say when someone shows themselves as to who they really are BELIEVE THEM., and this particular person always showed who they were.

Haven't we always  seen those appearing to have all good intentions, claim to have some kind of inside knowledge, shouting from the roof tops. This does not diminish the importance of ANY alleged victim of ANY situation to be heard BUT must be backed by fact. Now a days as others have said it's always shoot first. I hate to whistle blower  term as much as I hate the woke word but with that said " whistleblowers should always be heard ALWAYS, be taken seriously ALWAYS, met with compassion and concern ALWAYS ,but ALWAYS be based in fact. Whistleblowers lately has gotten a bad name mainly because many who you see on TV meeting at times with congress have mostly been debunked or found out to be having their own legal issues. Why do they do this ? who knows! but there has been alot of it lately. Even with that , even with fact against them , even debunked there are always those who want to believe it or even have a reason . IMO it's a sign of the times where the legit " Whistleblower" can't be heard or taken seriously because of the  other" whistleblower" who does what they do for whatever reason..

Transparency is always a good thing, Shinning a light can always be a good thing, those who shine the light  can always make a difference, good or bad, reputable or not so much, the problem becomes , as we have seen  on TV ,can we tell the difference. For sure a problem for those doing their best to do the right thing or be heard. A sad view of our times.

AS the original poster said in the title "What is wrong with us " says it all about the days we live in. I have my own opinion how it all started but that's another topic not allowed here..lol🙂

 

You’d be surprised at how the GH whistleblowers were treated after he was gone.  They were basically told that we got rid of him, now shut up and go away. 

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Terri Schehr

[GUARDLING]

14 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:

You’d be surprised at how the GH whistleblowers were treated after he was gone.  They were basically told that we got rid of him, now shut up and go away. 

 

 

 

Im very sure that is true but also know some of these whistle blowers were the same who defended him for a very long time knowing exactly who he was. it's sad for the real victims. I call it  faux outrage or outrage of convenience .

Edited October 25, 2023 by GUARDLING

[Terri Schehr]

2 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

Im very sure that is true but also know some of these same whistle blowers were the same who defended him for a very long time knowing exactly who he was. it's sad for the real victims.

I’m referring to the actual survivors. I’m very good friends with one of them. Not the sycophants who surrounded him. 

[GUARDLING]

1 minute ago, Terri Schehr said:

I’m referring to the actual survivors. I’m very good friends with one of them. Not the sycophants who surrounded him. 

I hear ya, and that's my point. A true victim has to fight for truth , to be heard or believed but as far as I'm concerned those who actually played like they were the ones running to the rescue were just as guilty and only displayed their faux outrage when when they were shunned  and no longer needed.

[Bruckner8]

Gee, I thought the worst possible things for the activity were wireless mics and shrinking contra lines. 

But seriously, operational ineptitude has always been there, and always will be there. At this stage in life (closing in on age 60) I can’t muster more than a “bummer” when world class orgs take time off (or completely fold). 

it’s late October, foliage in full swing in the Southern Appalachians, holly trees are fruiting, the last hay was cut, and the poison ivy is going dormant. Time to break out the Brush Cutter and Log Splitter.