Why do people HATE the Cadets?

[George]

while I agree that recent Cadet programs have been less-than-stellar design-wise -- if you look back over the past twenty years you'd have to rank the Cadets at or near the top when it comes to "new ideas" and "fresh shows" season to season.

I can't think of another corps that went from playing Copland, to Les Miz, to Lenny, to Holsinger, etc, etc... style wise that stretch WAS a stretch and each of those programs (from 82 until 92) had around a thousand new ideas, drill moves, etc. Look at the next ten years and the "new ideas" are about halved. The past five and they are pretty much forgetable.

Cadets work hard, march some great horn & drum lines, obviously fantastic guards -- but the staff has (for the past four seasons at the least) let the corps down in program coordination and design.

Two words: FRESH BLOOD.

Edited August 7, 2004 by George

[Sideways]

They should try their hand at Medea or Channel One Suite. ^0^

[LAMystreaux]

First:

People don't like other people that think they're idiots.  Hopkins, through his own "Drum Corps IS Marching Band" power point and other activities has treated the traditional drum corps fan like idiots.  Now, that rubs off on his corps, and I don't think he cares about that either.  Much like his antithesis, Scott Stewart, he has become bigger than his corps!  I think he'll either find the same fate or hurt his corps too.  (or both)

"His" corps only gets hurt by people with attitudes like yours. If you actually knew much about Hopkins instead of making so many assumptions, you would know most of this is not true. If anything, the man cares too much. . .if there is such a thing.

Second:

The Cadets show lacks any imagination from year to year.  Let's have the snares kick their leg at the end of their break.  Let's do a scatter drill.  Let's crowd the pit and play loud.  Basically, let's avoid any drill for 4-5 minutes a show year after year after year.  If you just saw them this year, you probably loved them.  If you go every year, you are bored.

Don't speak for everyone. Also, you must not have seen this year's show. . .lots more drill than in recent years. Not only that, all the griping people like you did about park and bark, Cadets were not usually the worst culprit, but always got the blame. Call this show anything but unimaginative. . .who else has brought jethro tull to the field?

[George]

They should try their hand at Medea or Channel One Suite. ^0^

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think the melody is the issue.

[ptr250]

I have no opinion on the Cadets since I haven't seen them in over 10 years (West Coaster). I do not like the direction GH is trying to take the activity. We don't need no stink'n woodwinds. Nor did I like the Artsy Fartsy direction Star took the activity (music for the music snobs). Finally after ten years the activity is bringing back shows that not only show off the skills of the members, but also entertain the fans in the stands! I'm looking forward to the TOC.

Paul

[jwillis35]

Just want to add to this debate. I am enjoying the many opinions of this thread.

I think there are many reasons a corps can be hated, or at least seem to be hated. And I say that because we must first remember that DCP and RAMD (although I don't go there anymore) are a much smaller commmunity of people vs those that attend drum corps shows through out this country. DCP is a growing community and a very important one, but often the opinions shared here are those of people who are well educated in drum corps circles. Many on this forum follow the rules changes, the direction of the activity from a creative standpoint, and they follow what other directors and members of corps are saying. We discuss and debate things on this forum that the average person who attends a DCI show would have no idea about.

Most fans and first-time viewers of drum corps shows do not care who George Hopkins is. They could care less about amplification of singing or whatever new thing we have found to gripe about. My mom will go to a show and if she saw a sax she would think nothing of it. If my sister came to a show with me and saw an amplifier she would not even know what it was, and she certainly would not be able to correlate that with some historical change that some feel has made drum corps less pure.

My point is that if you attend DCI shows then you know that the Cadets are generally not hated. In fact, they have many, many, many fans all over the country. Are there some in the audience who do not like them? Sure. Even when I was at the Canton show a few weeks back, the Cadets got one of the best standing ovations. On the east coast they are very popular. I believe that many in California will end up loving them, even though their show is not one of their best. Is is STILL A GOOD SHOW. AND THIS CORPS CAN PERFORM INCREDIBLY WELL!!!

As for the winning too much scenario. Sure, this will always be true. Even if you don't win the championship every year, the fact that they tend to be top 3 or top 4 every year is enough for many to want them out. This is also true of BD and Cavies. Why do you think so many people are pulling for SCV or Phantom to do well? Because they are not traditionally top 3 corps. Let's face it. SCV has been top 3 a total of 3 times since 1990 (14 years). Phantom has been top 3 a total of 4 times in the last 14 years. The Cadets have been top 3 a total of 12 times in the last 14 years. WOW! They have 4 DCI Titles in that time. BD has been top 3 a total of 10 times with 5 DCI Titles. The Cavaliers have been top 3 a total of 9 times with 5 DCI Titles. When it comes to top 3 appearances from 1990, the Cadets are the winners. Very consistent corps.

Now, I point this out not to put any other corps down. The pont is that when corps like BD, Cadets, and Cavies are in that top 3 so often it does get tiring for some fans. This is why we had a number of threads on this forum alone about wanting a different leader board. I understand that and think it would be nice to see some other corps in that column. Now, do I feel this is why the Cadets take a lot of heat from DCI fans? No, at least not entirely.

Maybe more important is what most of you have been saying. When a corps is associated with an outspoken director who, for right or wrong, proposes many ideas that elicit controversy, then the that corps will take its bumps. No biggy. The kids that march the Cadets know this and I think they thrive on it. It's all cool to them. George Hopkins is not the worst thing that can happen to DCI. Trust me. I think when it is all said and done, and whether you have agreed with or not (and I certainly have not agreed with him on everything), we will look back and say that the activity is better off becaue we had Mr. Hopkins' service and committment to keeping corps alive and well.

Remember that ideas are ideas. They are bad in the minds of some and good in the minds of others. Implimenting ideas takes many people, not just one, and those ideas that turn out bad, even horrible, will lead all of us to better ideas, and hopefully a better and healthier activity. Some people are less spoken, at least in the public eye about their ideas. I give GH a lot of credit for being so open and allowing all of us to discuss and debate his concepts. Dave Gibbs of the Blue Devils has been pushing for many of the same things as GH, but so many would probably not know that. Again, not every idea can be right or perfect, and mistakes will be a part of the business of making drum and bugle corps successful. Those mistakes will lead to better change.

Many of us witnessed one of those good ideas last night at the cinema. DCI should be proud and I thank them so much for that entertaining night.

[incognito]

Just want to add to this debate.  I am enjoying the many opinions  of this thread.

I think there are many reasons a corps can be hated, or at least seem to be hated.  And I say that because we must first remember that DCP and RAMD (although I don't go there anymore) are a much smaller commmunity of people vs those that attend drum corps shows through out this country.  DCP is a growing community and a very important one, but often the opinions shared here are those of people who are well educated in drum corps circles.  Many on this forum follow the rules changes, the direction of the activity from a creative standpoint, and they follow what other directors and members of corps are saying.  We discuss and debate things on this forum that the average person who attends a DCI show would have no idea about.

Most fans and first-time viewers of drum corps shows do not care who George Hopkins is.  They could care less about amplification of singing or whatever new thing we have found to gripe about.  My mom will go to a show and if she saw a sax she would think nothing of it.  If my sister came to a show with me and saw an amplifier she would not even know what it was, and she certainly would not be able to correlate that with some historical change that some feel has made drum corps less pure.

My point is that if you attend DCI shows then you know that the Cadets are generally not hated. In fact, they have many, many, many fans all over the country.  Are there some in the audience who do not like them? Sure.  Even when I was at the Canton show a few weeks back, the Cadets got one of the best standing ovations.  On the east coast they are very popular.  I believe that many in California will end up loving them, even though their show is not one of their best.  Is is STILL A GOOD SHOW.  AND THIS CORPS CAN PERFORM INCREDIBLY WELL!!!

As for the winning too much scenario.  Sure, this will always be true.  Even if you don't win the championship every year, the fact that they tend to be top 3 or top 4 every year is enough for many to want them out.  This is also true of BD and Cavies.  Why do you think so many people are pulling for SCV or Phantom to do well?  Because they are not traditionally top 3 corps.  Let's face it.  SCV has been top 3 a total of 3 times since 1990 (14 years).  Phantom has been top 3 a total of 4 times in the last 14 years.  The Cadets have been top 3 a total of 12 times in the last 14 years. WOW!  They have 4 DCI Titles in that time.  BD has been top 3 a total of 10 times with 5 DCI Titles.  The Cavaliers have been top 3 a total of 9 times with 5 DCI Titles.  When it comes to top 3 appearances from 1990, the Cadets are the winners.  Very consistent corps.

Now, I point this out not to put any other corps down.  The pont is that when corps like BD, Cadets, and Cavies are in that top 3 so often it does get tiring for some fans.  This is why we had a number of threads on this forum alone about wanting a different leader board.  I understand that and think it would be nice to see some other corps in that column.  Now, do I feel this is why the Cadets take a lot of heat from DCI fans?  No, at least not entirely.

Maybe more important is what most of you have been saying.  When a corps is associated with an outspoken director who, for right or wrong, proposes many ideas that elicit controversy, then the that corps will take its bumps.  No biggy.  The kids that march the Cadets know this and I think they thrive on it.  It's all cool to them.  George Hopkins is not the worst thing that can happen to DCI.  Trust me.  I think when it is all said and done, and whether you have agreed with or not (and I certainly have not agreed with him on everything), we will look back and say that the activity is better off becaue we had Mr. Hopkins' service and committment to keeping corps alive and well. 

Remember that ideas are ideas.  They are bad in the minds of some and good in the minds of others.  Implimenting ideas takes many people, not just one, and those ideas that turn out bad, even horrible, will lead all of us to better ideas, and hopefully a better and healthier activity.  Some people are less spoken, at least in the public eye about their ideas.  I give GH a lot of credit for being so open and allowing all of us to discuss and debate his concepts.  Dave Gibbs of the Blue Devils has been pushing for many of the same things as GH, but so many would probably not know that.  Again, not every idea can be right or perfect, and mistakes will be a part of the business of making drum and bugle corps successful.  Those mistakes will lead to better change.

Many of us witnessed one of those good ideas last night at the cinema. DCI should be proud and I thank them so much for that entertaining night.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did not even bother reading all the posts on this thread, I just wanted to add my 2 cents.

I don't really think there is hate for the cadets, It boils

down to the displeasure of one Mr. George Hopkins. He has made so many drastic changes, and is so full of himself, he just brought this all upon himself and it has spilled over to the kids that work so hard. After that lame pep talk on the field from Thursday night to every other stunt he has pulled, people don't like him and thus is falls back on the corps and the organization.

[jwillis35]

It just goes to show you how people can think differently.

I for one thought that pep talk the other night was awesome. The reason he did it on the field was that he felt the kids were losing something (an edge) between the tunnel or parking lot and the field. Instructors have been giving kids pep talks on the field for years in DCI and all of the marching activity. Perhaps it has just been much more segregated (per section) and the instructors have been people like the horn tech or drum guys. Still, it was great to see him talk to those kids.

They obviously have a great show tonight.

Way to go Cadets!!!!!!!!

[bfhdznr]

well this year their show really isnt all that much. its clean and duck @ss tight but theres not much difficulty, texture, layering in the music relative to the other top 8 and a huge lack of velocity and interest in their drill book. plenty other corps behind them have better shows with more demand and interst but are not as clean as cadets.

Thats why i dont like them.

but i never liked em just not my cup of tea. even when my brother marched their and one of my good friends marched there i just couldnt get into them.

[Lieut. General Effect]

well this year their show really isnt all that much. its clean and duck @ss tight but theres not much difficulty, texture, layering in the music relative to the other top 8 and a huge lack of velocity and interest in their drill book. plenty other corps behind them have better shows with more demand and interst but are not as clean as cadets.

Thats why i dont like them.

but i never liked em just not my cup of tea. even when my brother marched their and one of my good friends marched there i just couldnt get into them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds like you have a pretty cool brother who can accept the fact you could " never get into the Cadets and never liked the Cadets" even when he busted his arse there. Does he dislike the things you are into ? Just curious, not a flame.