uncle z Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Well, here's uncle z's $.02-- Not that I hated SCV in any way, shape or form in 1978............................... But how did that kick-a** Stravinsky NOT win?????????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggbert Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 (edited) ... Edited September 8, 2004 by Eggbert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketman Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Seems to me 27 also got the short end of the stick more than once. etc. etc. Many fine groups got the proverbial judges hose and it shaped the activity for years to come. The ones that survived the carnage became this year's TOC. I mean, isn't it whacky that only 6 championship corps exist after 30+ years??? weird. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Except, of course, BD and SCV! How does that work? I guess they were just that far ahead of everyone else, and we cornpones in the Mid-west were just too dumb to see it. NOT! 2-7 should have won in 80, hands down! Rocketman - Amoeba Booster ampssuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketman Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Well, here's uncle z's $.02-- Not that I hated SCV in any way, shape or form in 1978............................... But how did that kick-a** Stravinsky NOT win?????????????????? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "Z", I'm still scratching my a** on that one too! I'd bet just about everyone outside Santa Clara was scratching theirs too! Butt, I could be wrong. Rocketman - Amoebas Rule ampssuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 (edited) I mean, isn't it whacky that only 6 championship corps exist after 30+ years??? On the surface, it seems weird. But part of that is due to attrition. There just aren't that many corps left, and corps with championships are among the few still active. (Not sure what Anaheim's status is nowadays. And, of course, Star no longer competes in DCI.) But I think there's another factor, and it's fairly simple across the board in any competitive event: Success breeds success. It's not just an attitude, a confidence factor, which is instilled by winning, though that's part of it. But the most successful groups tend to attract the most funding, which then lends itself to continued success based on financial stability. Or, at least, financial stability relative to other competing groups. I doubt that any competitive group has no financial worries. But for those at the top of the totem pole, it's as good as it gets. And, of course, I think that whether judges want to admit it or not, groups who win carry a certain reputation in with them, and no matter how objective a judge tries to be, that can have an impact on their preconceptions of a particular group. I've judged, and I know this from experience. I always tried to be professional and impartial, but I'm pretty certain that the most successful groups had some influence on my expectations, which wouldn't have been there had I known nothing about them beforehand. It wasn't a big conspiracy, but just a very subtle mental acknowledgement of who was on the field. Edited September 7, 2004 by byline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketman Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I mean, isn't it whacky that only 6 championship corps exist after 30+ years??? But I think there's another factor, and it's fairly simple across the board in any competitive event: Success breeds success. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> byline: This may be true, but it shouldn't guarantee success! I am not convinced that BD and SCV were the best corps on the field for ALL their championships. However, if you were any other corps, you had better have been the best. But even then, at times this was not good enough, as long as BD, SCV and now Cadets and Cavies were close to the pack. It appears there is an unwritten rule that there should always be a corps from the west in contention. There have been far a few times when a West Coast corps was not "in the hunt" (90-93). Would drum corps cease to exist as we know it if BD, SCV, and now Cadets and Cavies, were not part of the top 3? Rocketman - Amoebas R Us ampssuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 This may be true, but it shouldn't guarantee success! Did it "guarantee" success? I'm not convinced of that, either. All we have is what the official results were. I'm also not convinced that every single DCI champion was necessarily the best corps out there. And the West Coast corps are not the only example of that. But I do believe that all of the champions conformed most closely to the judging criteria as they existed in the years they won. That may be the distinguishing characteristic, not politics or some sort of perceived favoritism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketman Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 (edited) Byline: You may be correct. However, there have been far better shows down the ranks than those that won. (my opinion of course). Just for the sake of argument, do you think that if BD and Blue Coats had switched shows in 2003, Blue Coats would have won? I don't. But, I believe, BD would have won, or been in the top3 doing Blue Coats show. To me, that is a guarantee, of sorts, of success. Their past reputation gets them the benefit of the doubt (deservedly or not) that corps down the line do not receive. Since execution means almost nothing anymore, it's all subjective, too subjective. And because BD has been successful, through no fault of their own, they could play music from Austin Powers and place in the top 3. Thus, those corps in the bottom (Blue Coats, etc) have practically no chance of breaking that barrier occupied, on a rotational basis, by BD, SCV, Cadets, and Cavies. Rocketman - Amoeba man ampssuck Edited September 9, 2004 by Rocketman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 (edited) Since execution means almost nothing anymore, it's all subjective, too subjective. While I agree with you that judging is subjective, and has always been subjective (even in the past, in the decision about what constituted a tick and what did not), I don't think execution means nothing. That, IMO, is why Blue Devils would win performing, for example, a Bluecoats show. I'm not trying to denigrate Bluecoats one bit, but Blue Devils have a level of talent and training that keeps them at or near the top of the totem pole year after year. Heck, they could've performed my corps' show in 1980 and won with it . . . and maybe even got away with those ugly uniforms! :P IMO, they could play the phonebook, but they would perform it so well that they could probably win with that, too. Not strictly because of their reputation--though I don't doubt that plays a part, too--but because of the high quality of their performance. Besides, it's not like they've always been a Top 3 lock, once they started winning in the DCI era. They were fourth in '87, '89, '90, '92 and '93, fifth in '91. Did their reputation desert them those years? Edited September 10, 2004 by byline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketman Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 (edited) Besides, it's not like they've always been a Top 3 lock, once they started winning in the DCI era. They were fourth in '87, '89, '90, '92 and '93, fifth in '91. Did their reputation desert them those years? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> By no means. In those years, it took exemplary shows/performances from the corps above them to have them finish lower than usual. However, I am not convinced that BD (and some others) have had shows or performances that were so far above the rest, but they still received the benefit of thier reputation and a better placement than oerhaps was deserved. Rocketman - I doubt it! ampssuck Edited September 10, 2004 by Rocketman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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