Murfreesboro

[kiotad]

Here's the thing:  The boxes each have SPECIFIC criteria which corps must achieve in order to earn a score in that box.  If a corps doesn't achieve said criteria that night, they shouldn't get the score that night.

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You are absolutely right. The problem is this: reputation colors judging. End of story. Would you want to be the one voice in the wilderness saying the emperor has no clothes when all around you say Box 5 ad nauseum?

I've got more to say but I want to clarify my thoughts before commiting them to the forum.

gil

[longruns]

Scores were sometimes in the hundredths before DCI, too.  It all depends on how the system is set up.

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I'm not into he said/she said stuff, but a reliable person I know who was in attendance that spoke to some of the Crown folks felt that it was one of their best brass performances of the year. I wasn't there so it's strictly based on someone else who spoke with brass staff members. I totally agree that sometimes corps' have down performances and should receive lower scores, but if they don't they should get the number they deserve.

[longruns]

I'm not into he said/she said stuff, but a reliable person I know who was in attendance that spoke to some of the Crown folks felt that it was one of their best brass performances of the year. I wasn't there so it's strictly based on someone else who spoke with brass staff members. I totally agree that sometimes corps' have down performances and should receive lower scores, but if they don't they should get the number they deserve.

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"Here's the thing: The boxes each have SPECIFIC criteria which corps must achieve in order to earn a score in that box. If a corps doesn't achieve said criteria that night, they shouldn't get the score that night"

This is the qoute I was referring to in the last post... sorry for the confusion.

[tyandbradsdad]

"I know what the boxes are for, sheesh."

I wish DCI would post a set of blank scoresheets. I'd love to see the sheets. They would help me understand the scoring system, my understanding of the contest placements, and my own evaluation of a corps performance a whole lot more. I do know that there's a judging guide somewhere on their site but I want to see what these criteria boxes contain. It would also help us long-time fans clue activity newbies into how the corps are judged and placements determined. Any leads?

Tim

[Einstein On The Beach]

The entire problem with the show is not HOW they're playing, it is what and how much. There just isn't enough music, period.

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There isn't enough music?

How can you explain that. I'm listening to BD's show right now, and I'm hearing plenty of music.

I'd like to know how Bluecoats go from a less than 2 point lead over Boston to almost a 4 point lead, in three days???

Was Boston off? Were Bluecoats on? Is this a necessary hiccup in the traditional slotting process? Is it a start time of perfromance issue (Boston on 1st, Blue on after intermission, 4th from the end)?

Inquiring minds...

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Or maybe Bluecoats got better? That's a possiblity, dontcha think?

[jwillis35]

DCI's judging sheets are very similar to that of the Indiana MEA marching circuit, and also very close to that of the MACBDA circuit which is one of the only summer marching band circuits. I have seen and used both while working with the Warren Jr. Military Band in the summer, which competes in MACBDA.

I would say this though when it comes to what Box you happen to be in for a specific caption.

1. Achieving a box (1-5) depends on performance levels, design, demand, integration, and effect. Each caption is a bit different. However, the better a corps is in each caption the higher the box and the better the score.

2. There are no guarantees that a corps will stay in a box from night to night. Consistency issues vary. Corps do not always get better. Changes to the show, inconsistency in performance, different judges, different perspectives from which to judge from, weather, field issues, the physical health of the members of the corps, the quality of their practice that day, bad food, you name it...these and more can all cause discrepencies in performance.

3. Knowing that so much can change a performance both in positive and negative ways it is important to understand that in addition to all these factors, a judge must also rank the corps appropriately according their performance that night. Here is a situation where the Box may be not as accurate a measure of quality in a caption. Carolina Crown had a 16.40 in brass performance last night. For many this seems low, and Crown does have an amazing horn line. But everyone in the top 8 has a tremendous horn line. The judge obviously felt Boston was a tenth better last night, and since he initially gave Boston a score of 16.50 he had to give Carolina a score one tenth lower. Now you can argue that he should have started with a higher score for Boston, but if this is where he felt Boston was, then I suggest it is not the score that matters as much as the rankings and the spreads from that point on. So perhaps the scores were a little low for some people's tastes, and perhaps the Box that their scores would indicate is not where we see those line presently, but in this case you have to forget about the box and just know that the rankings and the spreads were correct.

There is really no perfect way to do this.

Jonathan

[victorcoly]

There is really no perfect way to do this.

Jonathan

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Yes, but some folks need to bet better at calling a spade a spade!!!! I know I sometimes sound like a broken record saying that, but the Mufreesboro scores.... I don't get it!!! I was fortunate enough to have a friend call who had EXCELLENT tickets, so I took Friday off, and left Friday morning at 3:30AM to go....

I am NOT going to remain silent about the judging quality anymore, folks!!! <**>

Phantom was CLEARLY better then BD across the board!!!! And I gotta tell ya...Bluecoats are clearly better then Scouts!!! that's not being said because I'm partial to 'Coats either!!!!

I will say....Cadets took me by surprise! They are deinitely in the hunt this year, but from a percussion standpoint, Prosperie and Fugett blew it..... Cavies & Bluecoats should have been #1..#2 in Percussion...

Let's go judging community..... get over the FEAR of scoring one corps above another!!!!!

[GMichael1230]

We don't talk about it enough, and I know G would concur with this, but when talking about the big 3 you have to talk about guard.  The one consistent factor with these corps is the absolutely incredible performances and design elements of their guards, and the inclusion of all this into the fabric of the total visual and music al program.  The challengers have all been good over the years, but they lack a guard with the ability, design, and integration of the Blue Devils (who are the masters), as well as Cadets and Cavaliers.  Ultimately, to score higher in GE in all areas you need a guard at that level.  The challeners never quite get there.  Good, but not great.  Carolina Crown has an awesome guard this year, taking 4th last night, but their problem is demand and performance in the other areas, at least when comparing them to the top 3.  You have to assume that Phantom can match BD in the performance captions like music and perhaps even the marching captions come finals, but where will BD's guard be by that point?  This is a big X factor.

Jonathan

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Jonathan, I do conccur and agree totally. What an accurate, exciting assesement.

When it comes to colorguard, do you realize that you have to go back all the way to 1988 when someone other than the "big three" won that caption ?? Guard is indeed the factor as to what keeps these corps consistent and challenging every year. And I agre with your take on Crown too. They have the goods to hold their own in the guard area, its just show design and demand that keeps them from breaking out of the pack.

Excellent post.

I still cant believe the last corps other than the big three to win guard was 1988 Phantom Regiment......whew.

~G~

[oldbandguy]

Other than percussion, when was the last time someone other than the big 3 won any caption?

[Bill Cosby]

I will say....Cadets took me by surprise! They are deinitely in the hunt this year, but from a percussion standpoint, Prosperie and Fugett blew it..... Cavies & Bluecoats should have been #1..#2 in Percussion...

<**>

Cadets deserved drums last night, hands down.