2005 Off Season DCP-I/A Rules Congress

[bssop97]

With div II/III , if we keep it as is, we need to change the points allowed for div II/III.

If we give div II/III their own 3 days. We can keep it the same.

[bssop97]

I'm going to add more to this to make it more specific.

Here is the proposal.

Proposal: Instead of corps accruing bonus points per each show, all corps will earn bonus points at specific points in the season (such as just before or just after major regionals). Additionally, there will be set times in the season when corps can change captions, and corps will be limited to 3 caption changes at a time for the course of the season.

Rationale:

A: Nobody knows what a corps will change to. No more cheating.

B: No more question about when you can change a caption

C: The 3 at a time will look like slight changes not DRASTIC change

D: Makes life easier for Steve and Jeff

Submitted by Mystre

I mentioned this in a topic around the time of finals.

The way it would work is this.

There is 5 times a season when we get a bonus point. These points are use them or loose them. You can't stockpile points for your last change. The time of these bonus points will be determined by the ED.

Basicly two weeks into the season, lets say it started on the 1st, on the 12th-14th, you can change upto 3 captions (you don't have to make three but you have to use your bonus) and you are given one more point. These changes take effect for all corps on the 15th.

This elimnates the guess work with, how many shows we have done. Also it helps out Steve and Jeff, everybodies changes happen on the same day. Also for us directors, we know when we have to make a change.

If we make these changes around major events, it will also make the season more interesting.

Also this will make changes seem a little less drastic, no more 40th to 1st jumps and it makes it hard for directors to copy another corps caption choices. A director still might copy BUT they will always be a step behind.

If you blow your first choices, you can still place high but more than likely not win, think of it as putting out a bad product that you retool. If you have your stuff together, you will place high.

Finals week will stay as it currently is, but I suport Glenn's proposal with the time of Caption changes.

Question, comments.... fire away.

[Skylinersop16]

I don't like it for this reason:

You are limiting the number of caption changes. I will admit that I know squat about DCI. I have always been and always will be a DCA person. Limiting the number of times I can change captions gives me no chance to correct a mistake I made because I am not familiar to DCI corps. To me it seems like you are favoring people that know DCI and therefore giving them an advantage when in fact DCA oriented people should have just as much of a chance.

[chris7240]

Reduce the senior corps circuit from 4 Regional Championships to 3. Instead of having a North, South, East, and West Regional Championship, there will be a Pacific, Central, and Atlantic Regional Championship.

Rationale: This will spread out the corps more equally among the Regionals, and will allow for more competitive competitions.

Submitted by Rochambeau

[Galen]

I don't like it for this reason:

You are limiting the number of caption changes. I will admit that I know squat about DCI. I have always been and always will be a DCA person. Limiting the number of times I can change captions gives me no chance to correct a mistake I made because I am not familiar to DCI corps. To me it seems like you are favoring people that know DCI and therefore giving them an advantage when in fact DCA oriented people should have just as much of a chance.

I'm also a bit torn on this one.

I like the "set dates for getting points", for the reasons you laid out, but I'm not really thrilled with the "you can only change captions at certain times in the season", because I like having the freedom to sit down when I want to, figure out where my corps is going and how it needs to be improved, and there have been times historically (Cadets '87 is what first comes to mind) when a corps has started off slowly and then come on strong at the end to win the championship.

So, I offer this as a compromise.

Implement the "specific dates for caption changes" AFTER the regional championships. That would give everybody sufficient time during the first half of the season (which, traditionally, is when most corps make most of the major program changes) and still keep the ideas of "slight program changes/tweaks only" and "no worst to first jumps" that you have in place.

[bssop97]

I don't like it for this reason:

You are limiting the number of caption changes. I will admit that I know squat about DCI. I have always been and always will be a DCA person. Limiting the number of times I can change captions gives me no chance to correct a mistake I made because I am not familiar to DCI corps. To me it seems like you are favoring people that know DCI and therefore giving them an advantage when in fact DCA oriented people should have just as much of a chance.

This is not a change to benifit those who are into dci not dca.

Here is the way I see it.

Last season we had 3 per week uptill regional. Then 10 afterwards. No deadline except for the last set of changes, which was up in the air for some, then on top of that, we had to know how many shows we have done and what our new point total was.

What I'm proprosing is having the whole season like what we had at the begining. It is a possible 15 changes! If we go to 8 captions, we can change every one but 1 of our original picks.

The reason I'm limiting caption changes is two reasons.

#1 It came to everybodies attention that people copy and look at corps caption changes. Everybody turns in on the same day, this is no longer an issue. Also we know when our changes happen and when they take place.

#2 Have you ever seen a 15 point jump in one day on the same sheets? We did this past season, several times. You can make a bad set of inital picks and change and reach the top using only 3 changes at a time. I did this past season, remember, I was in 4th at Prelims.

You have 15 changes and for some people, not changing all at one time might be a good thing for them. Those that went Madison heavy this pass summer wish they can take it back and if they did it 3 at a time, they would of caught the mistake and hurt themselfs less.

This is something that has been suggested to me.

Implement the "specific dates for caption changes" AFTER the regional championships. That would give everybody sufficient time during the first half of the season (which, traditionally, is when most corps make most of the major program changes) and still keep the ideas of "slight program changes/tweaks only" and "no worst to first jumps" that you have in place.

This I can deal with. We need this intact though. A max total of 127 or 147 going into regionals (use them or loose them). We decide when we use them but we can make only up to 8 changes. Thats every caption. A complete retool of a corps.

After that, we have 3 more bonus points that allow up to 3 changes at a time (use it or lose it). These are set due times and everybodies takes effect on the same day.

That's 17 total changes.

I still like the first one better, but now we have an A and B option.

FDCI does unlimited the first three weeks, and let me tell you, I'm a better off season player, I would lick my chops, this help those at the top DOMINATE. After that, they go with 9 changes with a deadline BUT they do not have bonus points.

[bssop97]

One thing I'm going to add.

I really think we need to change our bonus/caption system BUT I'm open for ideas. When you make a suggestion, think about it all the way through.

I still like my plan A better but if somebody comes up with a good idea, I'll go with that.

Here is another reason why I think we need deadlines... This is a quote from Steve B.

I'm agreeing here. The .2 is more of a headache than I had planned. I wanted something would give corps an improvement in their corps as they perform besides what comes from the real corps. Keep this alive and start a new topic about this in the post season.

This was in the brainstorming for next season thread.

If we do points with no deadlines, would it confuse us as directors?

Would it effect Steve and Jeff?

Maybe I need some info from Steve or Jeff? They are directors, maybe they have a better idea.

[Matthew]

I think we should have set dates when we turn in caption changes, rather than having it all spread out. This way, everyone is on the same playing ground. A lot of people schedule their tours, and don't always have enough "points" to make certain changes. At least if we have certain dates, everyone has the same amount of changes/points. I would like to make these easier for Steve and Jeff as well. Rather than having e-mails coming at random times, why not just get everyones caption changes at once!

The only thing I really like about the current setup-- Not everyone schedules the same amount of shows as far as days, so I could be at 137pts, while someone else might be at 135pts. Thats kind of like real DCI, not every corps will rehearse the same, and do well early on, or late in the season. So I can see the advantages of keeping it how it is.

However, I agree with Shannon, several people saw what corps were doing what, and we saw some very low placing corps who wouldn't have been close to finals, skyrocket into DCP-I Finals last season. I honestly call it cheating myself, but hey...a game is a game. Having everyone change at once, eliminates cheating and makes everyone have to submit changes at once. If you don't change captions... USE IT OR LOSE IT! thats kinda how it is in DCI... you get critiqued, you either use the information given to you, or you do with it what you wish, but the outcome is how you want your corps to perform. Directors who aren't active with their corps--will probably not like this idea, but oh well. I support Shannon 100% with having things in at once for ALL corps. As far as how many times per season to do caption changes, I havent really thought about it... But I want these small things taken care of first.

[Matthew]

Proposal: All division I corps will compete in their prelims performance, 25 corps will move on from prelims (not counting Division II/III--should that proposal pass or not), then be given a chance to compete in quarterfinals, and from quarterfinals the top 17 corps will move on to semifinals, and from semifinals the top 12 will move on to finals.

Rationale: This will cut down on the amount of corps advancing to quarterfinals, and will be more competive in the long run. Corps will be vying for fewer spots in quarterfinals, and will have to make wise decisions as to what captions they choose during the DCP-I Championships week.

*I believe we have advanced the top 30 from prelims every year, cutting it by 5 corps makes it more competitive, even if it is 5 corps less. I know, if you are in top 30, you do have a chance of moving up quite a few spots to make that next cut into quarterfinals.

Submitted by Tri-Color Drum and Bugle Corps

Proposal: No longer announce caption awards at local shows. Only announce caption winners at regional contest, and DCP-I Championships.

Rationale: This cuts down on bandwidth and clutter when we are looking at the recaps from show to show. Caption awards and their winners are clearly shown by the scores in the recap, and do not need to be posted in the first place. :)

Submitted by Tri-Color Drum and Bugle Corps

[Eddie]

We have required focus shows that all corps are performing in, plus regionals. I would think that allowing bonus points to be awarded after these shows, plus the shows during finals week wouldn't be a bad idea.

For caption changes, here's an interesting idea I think. in reality, non-show days are usually full day rehearsals, with any major changes a corps deciding to do being implimented there. So when a corps director decides on the tour schedule, they decide on an x number of "full day/caption changing days" as well.

So for example, along with the 40 (or however many there are) shows scheduled, 10 caption change/full days are scheduled as well, with changes taking affect the following show day. these days cannot be the same day as a show day. So if I have a show on Friday, Saturday, and Monday... I may designate Sunday as a full day rehearsal/caption change day.

Then before regionals, allow only a max of 3 caption changess to be made on any given caption day, and a total of 10 throughout all caption days between regionals and finals week.

Just a thought.

Edited September 28, 2005 by bari_benzo