Ok.....here we go!

[Phirefenix]

Limiting the definition of a div. 2 corps to being a 'feeder' corps is rather tacky. Plenty of members stick with their corps regardless of division, and age-out there.

As for the age-limit for Div. 1, I think a blanket limit by DCI is wrong. Though many corps themselves have a minimum age policy. Though exceptions are usually made for younger auditionees who show a high level of maturity. So the idea is already in place.

[liebot]

Limiting the definition of a div. 2 corps to being a 'feeder' corps is rather tacky. Plenty of members stick with their corps regardless of division, and age-out there.

As for the age-limit for Div. 1, I think a blanket limit by DCI is wrong. Though many corps themselves have a minimum age policy. Though exceptions are usually made for younger auditionees who show a high level of maturity. So the idea is already in place.

i think he was saying that by putting a lower age limit on D2 you're labeling them as feeder corps. but yes, you are correct.

[Achilles]

Since there is no fundamental difference in today's world between Div. 1 and Div. 2 in terms of the rules of competition, that is in effect what Div. 2 corps become - feeders for Div. 1 corps. Of course there are many exceptions. Today, Div. 1 and Div. 2 corps compete for the same members and generally it's not a fair fight. If they were competing for two separate age brackets, things would be much different.

Today DCI's Div. 1 / Div. 2 scheme really works against startup organizations - the focus seems to be on getting to Div. 1 and that's a huge hurdle to jump.

Edited December 29, 2005 by Achilles

[Eddie]

Since there is no fundamental difference in today's world between Div. 1 and Div. 2 in terms of the rules of competition, that is in effect what Div. 2 corps become - feeders for Div. 1 corps. Of course there are many exceptions. Today, Div. 1 and Div. 2 corps compete for the same members and generally it's not a fair fight. If they were competing for two separate age brackets, things would be much different.

Today DCI's Div. 1 / Div. 2 scheme really works against startup organizations - the focus seems to be on getting to Div. 1 and that's a huge hurdle to jump.

careful there. Div 2 IMHO is still more closely related to Div 3 than to Div 1 as D2 corps compete under 2/3 sheets, and are entitled to a shorter field show, as well as a more flexible tour schedule.

One thing for sure though, all DCI is is a competition circuit. Each corps is its own individual and in cases of organiztional structure, are no different than anyone else, regardless of what division they compete in.

As long as these "startup" corps focus more on their organization and less on DCI competition, they'll do fine, but many cases, it's the opposite.... which is a drag.

[Dave]

To reiterate, I said limit Div. 1 to a minimum membership age of age 18 (or perhaps 17) and current max; no limit other than the current max age to Div. 2. The kids you are referring to could still march Div. 2.

This would tend to reinforce the concept of Div. 1 corps as college age, higher skill demand, larger budget, and nationally touring vs. Div. 2 as high school (and above) age, appropriate budget levels and regionally touring/competitive organizations. The way Academy has approached this is an excellent example in terms of limiting themselves to regional competition as their organization evolved.

Overall, this could lead to greater stability at the Div. 2 level, continue/promote the creation of cadet/feeder (Div. 2) corps by stable Div. 1 organizations, and lead to the creation of regionally competitive circuits at the Div. 2 level which ultimately lead to the greater long term stability for the entire activity. More kids competing at the Div. 2 level will lead to the long-term strengthening of existing Div. 1 organizations, and creation of new Div. 1 corps in the long run. I think WGI's model for the guard activity serves as a model for this to some extent.

Just my $.02.

I couldn't disagree more. I didn't start marching in Div. II/III until I was 18; forcing them to age out their members at 18 would give a lot of corps a big disadvantage as they lost experienced members before their time. It wouldn't bring in more kids to Div. II, it would force more out.

[kansasDC]

I also disagree strongly with this idea. My son is marching Div. I this year and he turns 14 in April. Just because he is younger than most does not mean he should not be able to march where he wants. He has already marched a full season with a DCI corps, and has been touring with top corps since he was 4. Why should he not be allowed to march Div. I if he has the skills, maturity, desire and money to do so?

(BTW: I also know of several people that marched with a "current top 1" Div. I corps at 14 or 15 years old. And they won rings. Age does not always determine a person's abilities or maturity.)

[MelloHorn13]

DIV 2 corps aging memebers out at 18 wouldn't work out for people over 18. I've been to 2 top 3 corps camps in the past 3 years and there were people auditioning who were no where near at the level needed to march that corps. I've also marched in DIV2/3 where there were 20-21 year olds there were switching from woodwinds that wouldn't have been good enough to march the DIV 1 corps of their choice.

And then again, you got people who either can't afford the cost of some DIV 1 corps, and can't afford to stop working for the summer to march. And that's where DIV 2/3 comes in. It works out for everyone.

[SoonerFan04]

lol This whole subject is way off-topic, but I think we can all agree it's way better than the original intent of this thread...

Anyway, I also disagree with the idea. I auditioned for Memphis (Div. II) when I was 17 and a senior in high school, but I turned 18 on May 25th so I was already 18 by the time the "season" started. Would I have started marching at 14? Yeah, but I had very little idea what drum corps actually was at that age...not to mention, Memphis wasn't even founded until the year before I tried out and they were the only corps within reasonable driving/travel distance. Driving 5 hours to Memphis and 5 hours back once a month, even as a 17 year old, took some convincing for my dad. I'm 19 now, so it isn't an issue, and I could just as easily travel to another Div. I corps' camp if I WANTED...but I don't want to. I fell in love with Memphis my rookie year (at 18) and I am going on my 3rd year with them. I'll be 20 by the time tour starts this year; leaving one more year, my age-out, that I have every intention of marching with Memphis...a Div. II corps. :)

But yeah...that's my opinion and reasoning behind it...

[no_itsnotadash]

I wouldn't mine marching my age-out year at my corps. If its somewhere I want to spend my summer and it teaches me alot, why leave? I march corps to enjoy the experiance, not march with [insert name] drum and bugle corps because they win (not that I wouldn't mine :P). If I like where I'm at, why leave?

[dudes]

Academy will have some competition...but even if they field a corps identical(not better, although all they have been doing is improving) to last year, they will win. I've competed and watched from a fan's point of view and their corps this last three years has consistently been way ahead of all competition. I hope someone can try and tackle this monster but its like having a good college football team compete against the high school leagues. Academy will be in Div I soon enough!

OK... can we discuss that academy has not competed against ECJ or Spartans yet. You have no idea the difference that makes...especially since these two have dominated the Division two consecutive years now. Not to mention... west coast shows tend to flat line mid season anyways... You cannot make an ACCURATE prediction until these corps all face each other....

period. End of sentence.