Drum Corps and Figure Skating, Part II

[rut-roh]

No, they weren't. They were given the freedom and the appopriate time to evaluate just how severe the injury was, collect themselves once it was decided they could proceed, and then begin again. What was it? Two minutes? Regardless, the move that caused the injury was VERY early in their program. In fact, it was the first real "move" they made. Roughly 90% of their program took place after the throw. So it's not like they were really catching that much of a break by starting over. I would think that performing that much of their program on a bum knee and a fragile approach to further throws...and actually skating WELL in the face of all that...was more than worth the points they earned.

[abercrombiedevon]

i cried last night when i watched them perform after the fall...it was incredible. they totally deserved a medal just for the emotional aspect.

[Lance]

They deserved the medal because they were clearly the 2nd best pair. Not by a little, but by a lot. Other than the fall, the performance was very, very good. Falls resulting in interruption like this aren't really very rare at all, and the interruption was to check and see if she was injured. Pretty routine there.

Zhen and Xiao (the bronze medalists) at their best would have had a hard time beating that, and the rest of the field was well behind both Chinese pairs in terms of technicality and performance.

The emotional aspect was great, but had nothing to do with their score, guaranteed. They were far and away the 2nd best couple of the night.

[iluvdc]

Can anyone who knows anything about figure skating explain to me how a girl can fall on her ###, stop skating, then a few minutes later continue the routine with her partner and win a SILVER MEDAL?

Imagine half of the Cavaliers falling down in the middle of their show.

Only one thing to say...... Whitewater - 1984 - Garfield

(if you know what I am talking about correct me if I have the wrong year)

[SF2K4]

Points are retracted (right word?) in figure skating, or the score is just lower, if moves don't relate to the music.

[rut-roh]

Only one thing to say...... Whitewater - 1984 - Garfield

(if you know what I am talking about correct me if I have the wrong year)

And they were still the best corps on the field that night.

[kevingamin]

A month or so ago, I started a thread here about the similarities between drum corps and figure skating. At the time, I also related my complaint about how figure skaters ruin the music by mis-timing their jumps, lifts, etc.

After watching the pairs competition at the Olympics this week, I'm prepared to revise my harsh assessment. Not sure if it's unique to the pairs, but I've been impressed by the coordination of movement and music so far. Many of the performances have been not only thrilling, but musical. It seems there is a lot more in common with drum corps than I allowed last time. I'm liking it.

And I'm still wondering if there aren't lessons for drum corps to learn from the success of figure skating. Yes, I understand figure skating benefits from "personalities" in a way drum corps can't. Still, they both seem to me more pageantry than sport. Is there something they're doing that we should be doing?

HH

I think part of this might be due to the new scoring system figure skating is using. No more perfect scores, deductions for things like falls, and harder elements earn higher scores. The skaters really seem to like the system.

[jwillis35]

To compare a fall in figure skating to a fall in drum corps is not the best way to draw similarities, or to debate the pros and cons of both scoring systems.

In ice skating, just the surface alone, not to mention the movement by wearing hard-to-balance skates, makes falls a much more common thing in figure skating. Sure, falls do happen in drum corps, but not nearly as often as in skating. A fall in skating would be more similar to those marching on the wrong foot, playing a wrong note, or missing a change of direction.

However, in the history of drum corps, we must, once again, look at history to see that when members have fallen that corps have not always been hurt in placement, even though they may have been docked in score.

In 1996, the Phantom Regiment has a soprano player fall down after one of the tunes. This person got up quickly and back into form before many would notice. The corps tied the Blue Devils for the World Championship.

In 1984, the Garfield Cadets were at DCI Midwest performing their West Side Story show. After the company front in "Tonight", the Z-pull started and roughly 8 or 9 sopranos went down as they backed into each other. It hurt their score to some degree, but the corps still finished 2nd.

In 1998, The Cadets were in Pittsburgh (a show I was at) and after the intro they had a wonderful, and very fast, rotating block move. Several members were spun out of control and 2 bit the dust. The corps still won the show.

There are many more examples.

Falling does happen from time to time, but it doesn't mean the corps will "lose" or fall many placements. So it is very possible for ice skaters to fall and still perform brilliantly.

It is a typical teenager kind of response to expect that when something very visible happens, such as a fall, that the score should really take a dive. Very little consideration is given, by those who do not judge, to how a fall compares with playing out of tune, poor balance, marching off step, missed direction changes, wrong notes, ugly sound, dropped rifles and flags, and so much more. In reality, I will take a fall any day of the week over a corps playing out of tune for the entire show. One mistake lasted for a few seconds, while the other destroyed my ears for 11+ minutes.

Falling down in drum corps, while rare, is certainly not the worst offense; and in figure skating it happens more often due to the surface and the routines, but as with drum corps there is so much more to what they judge than a fall.

Jonathan

[madscout96]

To compare a fall in figure skating to a fall in drum corps is not the best way to draw similarities, or to debate the pros and cons of both scoring systems.

In ice skating, just the surface alone, not to mention the movement by wearing hard-to-balance skates, makes falls a much more common thing in figure skating. Sure, falls do happen in drum corps, but not nearly as often as in skating. A fall in skating would be more similar to those marching on the wrong foot, playing a wrong note, or missing a change of direction.

However, in the history of drum corps, we must, once again, look at history to see that when members have fallen that corps have not always been hurt in placement, even though they may have been docked in score.

In 1996, the Phantom Regiment has a soprano player fall down after one of the tunes. This person got up quickly and back into form before many would notice. The corps tied the Blue Devils for the World Championship.

In 1984, the Garfield Cadets were at DCI Midwest performing their West Side Story show. After the company front in "Tonight", the Z-pull started and roughly 8 or 9 sopranos went down as they backed into each other. It hurt their score to some degree, but the corps still finished 2nd.

In 1998, The Cadets were in Pittsburgh (a show I was at) and after the intro they had a wonderful, and very fast, rotating block move. Several members were spun out of control and 2 bit the dust. The corps still won the show.

There are many more examples.

Falling does happen from time to time, but it doesn't mean the corps will "lose" or fall many placements. So it is very possible for ice skaters to fall and still perform brilliantly.

It is a typical teenager kind of response to expect that when something very visible happens, such as a fall, that the score should really take a dive. Very little consideration is given, by those who do not judge, to how a fall compares with playing out of tune, poor balance, marching off step, missed direction changes, wrong notes, ugly sound, dropped rifles and flags, and so much more. In reality, I will take a fall any day of the week over a corps playing out of tune for the entire show. One mistake lasted for a few seconds, while the other destroyed my ears for 11+ minutes.

Falling down in drum corps, while rare, is certainly not the worst offense; and in figure skating it happens more often due to the surface and the routines, but as with drum corps there is so much more to what they judge than a fall.

Jonathan

Again, it's not really the FALL that I have an issue with, but rather the DELAY. In all those examples you mentioned, I don't think the corps just STOPPED, regrouped, and started from the top or from the middle somewhere. The kept going. And I'm not trying to be insensitive to the injury that the skater may have had, but how long do you allow them to collect themselves before they're required to resume the program or say "we're done"?

[rut-roh]

I didn't remember the delay being an inordinate amount of time. It was certainly no more than five minutes. An appropriate amount of time to not only get the medical personnel to determine the extent and severity of the injury, but to give the pair a reasonable amount of time to collect themselves and prepare to resume the skate. And as I mentioned before, the throw that caused the fall happened very early in their program, so it's not as if they were physically exhausted when it happened and the delay gave them that much of a break.