DCI and DCA's relationship? (curiosity killing me)

[torn8o]

P.S. I love drum corps. I just love it. And...I've missed it. I'm glad to be involved again. :)

Forgive me if I seem a little over zealous at times with some of these topics. I just want my side of the activity (DCA) to be looked at as something great is all. I'm saddened by the people who still look at DCA in the light of the old "senior corps stigma". DCI and DCA are both great drum corps activities. I know everyone has different opinions and DCA may not be everyone's cup of tea. I respect that. All I ask is that you judge it fairly - as in...SEE what is going on in it today...BEFORE making a judgement on it.

Edited February 20, 2006 by torn8o

[JimF-LowBari]

Well then, it sounds like your problem is not with DCI and their lack of association with DCA...but with Steve Rondinaro and his symantics. Is it worth getting worked up about?

M

Problem I have with Rondos choice of words is the target audience has changed since he started the "over 21 that's it" bit. Audience in the 70s/80s was anyone who wanted to watch so there were a lot of people who knew better. Target audience today is "newbies" who take what they hear on the telecast as Gospel. Yes, other people watch but according to DCI it's the potential new members they are going after. Think DCI would be more careful with what the potential new members hear. I'm a real cynic and if I hear "after 21 that's it" and found out differently later, I'd be less likely to believe anything else said on the telecast.

[OMello1]

Oh....Maybe I am making too big a deal out of it though. I don't know. I guess I'm just trying to stand up for those who bust their tails doing drum corps who never get the kind of recognition they deserve is all. I suppose the old senior corps stigma of people thinking it's just a bunch of drum corps wash ups honking on a bugle very badly while downing a keg with no attempt to be good at what they do has never quite been defeated. So, I guess where I'm getting at is that times have changed. People need to open their eyes and look at what is going on in DCA and recognize it for what it is. There are good things going on and I just want people to know it and see it. Is that such a bad thing? This is my first year involved with DCA and I myself am a product of once being brainwashed into thinking that DCA was nothing legit in the world of drum corps. Now that I see it, I guess I'm just eager to say "HEY! Don't forget us. We are doing it too". Again, is that such a bad thing?

I certainly respect and understand your viewpoint here. There is certainly merit to what you say...

But is it really DCI's responsibility to make sure their audience is aware of DCA? Afterall, as others have pointed out, DCI and DCA, to some degree, compete for both audience and members. That doesn't mean outright hostility between the two organizations is appropriate (and glad there isn't). Are DCA's image problems DCI's fault? DCI is footing the bill and creating a broadcast to showcase their "big dance"...why should they be charged with a public announcement regarding DCA?

Well...there are a couple good reasons I can think of: DCI is the most prominent and visible body in the drum and bugle corps world, and as such, they do carry (like it or not) a certain amount of responsability for the activity as a whole. Of course, DCI would probably never own up to that responsibility officially...but to many people, DCI = drum corps. As innacurate as that may be, for many, it is the truth.

Is that DCI's fault or DCA's fault? DCI has been around for almost 35 years now...they've had lots of time to build awareness, build financial resources, and build a broadcast situation (btw...is DCI on ESPN again this year?? They've been awfully quiet thus far about it...I digress...). DCA is a relatively young circuit who is just now beginning to grow into a national body. They have not had the same ability to grow an audience and resources and put into place any sort of public relations situation.

So...my opinion is as such: DCI, as the headliner organization of the drum and bugle corps activity, should shoulder some responsibility for accurately portraying the activity as a whole, but that if they were to opt out of the responsibility, we can't blame them too much. DCA, as the young circuit with lots to prove, needs to step up their efforts to create a public image that is appropriate to their purpose. Wouldn't some sort of broadcast of the DCA championships do wonders toward increasing awareness of their particular brand of drum and bugle corps?

my $.02

M

[JimF-LowBari]

Actually DCA started in the mid 1960s. But until a few year ago it was a circuit made up of corps from the Northeastern US, Onterio, Quebec and handful of Midwest groups only. Reason why DCA didn't expand to nationwide until recently was the travel distance and there used to be other Sr circuits.

Also it wasn't until recently that DCA started the Class A division which IMO gives smaller corps a big chance to show what they can do. From what I've seen this has really helped promote the smaller groups.

I can see why DCI wouldn't want to mention DCA on the telecast that DCI pays for. In some areas the two are also going after the same potential members. But then again Ford doesn't say "if you don't buy from us, you can't buy a car", the just brag up their car and ignore the competition.

Edited February 20, 2006 by JimF-xWSMBari

[madscout96]

I can see why DCI wouldn't want to mention DCA on the telecast that DCI pays for. In some areas the two are also going after the same potential members. But then again Ford doesn't say "if you don't buy from us, you can't buy a car", the just brag up their car and ignore the competition.

That's because Ford isn't SO stupid as to believe that the general public thinks that they're the only auto maker out there!

[idontwan2know]

The irony in all this is that the people over 21 whose marching careers are supposedly over are exactly the people DCI should want marching in DCA corps. A healthy expanding DCA circuit consisting mostly of ageouts(whether they actually marched a junior corps or not), is the best of all possible worlds for DCI. From watching people in my age group make the transition from junior corps age to ageout status, I feel very confident in saying that a person involved with a DCA corps is many many times more likely to stay involved with junior corps(including buying souvies and going to shows) than a person who closes the book on drum corps after their ageout season.

I also think the idea that DCI and DCA are competing for members is not very true to the reality. I haven't done any scientific studies, but in my experience the people of junior corps age who march in DCA corps are people who would not be marching at all if it were not for the lower time/money/talent commitment required by DCA corps. DCA corps, by and large, also recognize that junior corps offers a very different kind of experience that they can't offer, and most VERY strongly encourage members to experience junior corps when they can.

I've only run across two members who ever truly had the option between a junior and DCA corps and who chose the DCA corps. Both did so despite strong encouragement from their fellow members and staff of the DCA corps.

[JimF-LowBari]

That's because Ford isn't SO stupid as to believe that the general public thinks that they're the only auto maker out there!

But there are people out there who know nothing about Drum Corps.

And if the only thing they "know" is what comes from the telecast.....

And DCI has said that the "newbies" are their intended audience.

(Think I'm following your intent here...)

[JimF-LowBari]

The irony in all this is that the people over 21 whose marching careers are supposedly over are exactly the people DCI should want marching in DCA corps. A healthy expanding DCA circuit consisting mostly of ageouts(whether they actually marched a junior corps or not), is the best of all possible worlds for DCI. From watching people in my age group make the transition from junior corps age to ageout status, I feel very confident in saying that a person involved with a DCA corps is many many times more likely to stay involved with junior corps(including buying souvies and going to shows) than a person who closes the book on drum corps after their ageout season.

I've always thought "after 21 that's it" might kill the idea of some 20 year olds trying out for Jr corps (for the first time). My reasoning is someone might think "#### why go thru all that work if this is my only shot to make a corps EVER". But if they know DC is a possibility after their only shot at Jrs, they might try to give it a chance. "Well if I don't make the cut, there IS a next year, just with the Srs".

[randomnoise]

Only read the first three pages, but wanted to give a few opinions. Forgive me if I repeat things that others have said.

For those that don't know me, I am a member of the DCA board and a former member of the board of a top DCI corps. I have also served as a consultant for DCI (web stuff).

1. I would imagine that the majority of DCI folks (fans, members, staff) have little or no idea that Senior corps exist (unless they frequent DCP or the other online forums).

2. You just can't generalize about the people that make up DCI. They are individuals and should be considered as such. Dan Acheson knows we exist, and has been very gracious since the "reliving their youth" comment. Most of the Directors that make up the DCI Board and committee know about us, but we are not especially relevant to them - they are too busy with their own corps to worry about us.

3. DCI is one of the sponsors of DCA (not a ton of money, but it IS welcome). Ed Dempsey (he runs strategic relations for DCI) is an Alumni of DCA, and a big supporter and fan. He proposed to his wife (who marched Renegades) at DCA Prelims a few years ago! Some of the directors (Scott Stewart, Hopkins) show up to DCA Nationals. George Hopkins has supported DCA by lending equipment to corps over the years. DCA as an organization does not formally support DCI.

4. Awareness of DCA is slowing building among the DCI crowd, thanks to the online community and to the efforts of a few to help educate them as well as the many who slam DCI at every opportunity. If we truly want greater awareness of senior or all age corps, DCA should advertise (which they have started doing). DCI has no responsibility to do so for us.

5. DCI has sponsored two DCA shows. To my knowledge, neither of these show sponsorships have been overwhelmingly positive experiences for DCI.

6. Many DCA members and fans have blasted DCI for various reasons over the years, many of which are outlined in this thread. How hard would YOU work for another organization if many of the members of that other group were negative and constantly pointing out your flaws (real and perceived)? Scott - maybe you should get in touch with Rondo and let him know that his line is offensive and that there are great opportunities to march after aging out of DCI.

7. SEVEN

EDITED FOR GRAMMAR AND SPELLING

Edited February 20, 2006 by randomnoise

[audiodb]

I also think the idea that DCI and DCA are competing for members is not very true to the reality.

Well, maybe it's a matter of semantics, then. Obviously, the two circuits are not fighting tooth and nail over people. But in the same sense in which McDonald's and Burger King offer two "competing" choices in fast-food, DCI and DCA corps offer different choices for the marcher. They may choose one or the other, perhaps some of each, but probably not both in the same meal (food) or season (marching).

I haven't done any scientific studies, but in my experience the people of junior corps age who march in DCA corps are people who would not be marching at all if it were not for the lower time/money/talent commitment required by DCA corps.

But junior corps has generally offered options with a lower price in time/money via many corps in local/regional circuits, division II/III and even certain division I units. Perhaps that's not as true today, as all the local/regional circuits have become part of DCI, and nearly all division II/III units tour to DCI Championships annually - but that was not the case just a few years ago.

DCA corps, by and large, also recognize that junior corps offers a very different kind of experience that they can't offer, and most VERY strongly encourage members to experience junior corps when they can.

Yes, they do. (add "attaboy" emoticon here)