DCI and DCA's relationship? (curiosity killing me)

[torn8o]

Went straight to the source huh? :P Taped some of the DCI broadcasts for later viewig but never saved 'em :( (bad Jim, bad Jim)...

Yeah, I actually found the 1993 doc on BOTH the telecast video as well as the Legacy (the telecast is even better because of the Rondo and Gowdy additions to the commentary). As for 88, not sure if it's on the Legacy - have not checked yet. But, 1993 is.

[Jeff Ream]

See, that's exactly my point. The large majority of junior corps aged kids in DCA corps are there because junior corps is for some reason not do-able. DCI isn't losing anybody because most of them wouldn't be marching anywhere if it weren't for the more practical DCA corps.

or..........because they cant handle the financial demands. in most cases up here, the usual late spring joiners are actually over DCI age or late recruits who weren't doing anything.

[Jeff Ream]

Shawn,

Good post, but I disagree to an extent. DCI, to my knowledge, has never put down DCA. Perhaps things were said that were mis-understood or taken out of context, such as the Dan Acheson statement, but this comment and others were not meant to harm DCA. Dan was simply trying to say that DCI existed for a different reason and had a different agenda than DCA. Yes, perhaps he generalized DCA, but many of us have our opinion of what DCA is. Frankly, like I said in an earlier post, the lines are very hazy today. DCA is a combination of old and new, young and old in terms of members, and so much more.

Also, in regards to the organizations working together. On occasion DCI has asked DCA corps to appear at World Finals (numerous times actually). And some combined show efforts would be good, but for the most part I think the organizations to go their own course. That is what's best for the consumer (musician and fan). DCA needs to hold strong and grow their own base without interferance from DCI. This gives us the most choices and better perspective on change and quality. Too much cooperation in this case is bad for DCA because DCI is too big. DCA would ultimately get sucked in. In my opinion, it's better they have little contact. It doesn't mean they hate each other, or that there will never be any communication or cooperation, but it means each is free to pursue their course for the future without interference.

We all know that when companies compete, consumers win. Prices go down, products get better, and innovation takes place on many fronts. Perhaps not all of these analogies work with drum corps, but I do believe that the two organizations should stay away from each other for the most part. I have no desire to see DCA and DCI become one and the same, nor do I wish they become beer buddies.

Jonathan

i'll disagree on combined shows. there used to be many here in the East, and the true winners were the fans. Look at Hershey.....regardless of whether all senior, all junior or combined, it drew anywhere from 5-7000 fans. in fact, one of the largest attended shows was 96 which was all senior...til of course SCV and BD came in for 2004.

you can do these shows and not hurt anyone. Obviously Five Star did it for years...no one got hurt, and everyone won. every corps got to play to a huge crowd that loved drum corps....fans of all ages and backgrounds. locally, it was like having teeth pulled waiting to find out who was where for rehearsals......some schools even had a DCA and a DCI corps at the same time.

trust me, the only ones who lose in this set up are those who let ego get in the way or want to book Destinys Child.

[Jeff Ream]

I wouldn't have known too much about the RCA either except we sucked for a few years while rebuilding so were in more than a few RCA shows. Thinking back it helped me get a better appreciation for smaller (and less talented) corps.

Do agree on the better 70s DCA corps having the same (mature) faces. First DCA show I saw was in 1974 and I was surprised by the average age of a lot of the big corps. Seemed that Sky, Cabs, Buccs, Yankee Rebels and Crusaders had guys that looked like my dads age. But being 16 years old, everyone over 25 looked "old".

Interesting thing is by 1979 Buccs and Sunrisers started going for more DCI type arrangements and both of those corps seemed younger than the "old guard". Thanks as I never realized it until now that late 70s seem to be the start of the younger set in DCA......

Edit: We weren't quite an "average" Sr corps in the 70s due to folding (1972) and rebuilding (starting 1974) but in 1974 we were half newbies (mainly HS/college age) and half vets going back 10-15 years in experience. In 1979 those vets were gone and had a bunch of late 20s to mid 30 somethings as our veterans. And we also seemed to get a boatload of rookies each year from HS as most of our instructors taught there.

after the 83 fold and 84 six week tour comeback and rebuild, the corps got younger yet. in 1990, if you kick 4 guys out of the drumline, the average age was 18.

[Jeff Ream]

I think (I hope) that what they were suggesting is a level of interaction much like DCI and DCA have today - some joint participation in events, some sharing of judges, but two independently run organizations free to remain true to their differing missions.

some sharing of judges has already happened. in fact at Hershey, the only person not to work both panels was the DCA ensemble PErcussion person, as DCI didn't have that sheet

[randomnoise]

Couple more comments...

DCA shows are indeed different from DCI, and are more varied. The reason is simple - different sheets. Almost all corps staffs design their shows to be competitive, and the sheets are the definitive guide on how to compete. DCA sheets state that a show should be entertaining - it is important. This one guideline (IMO) allows for more varety on the field. In the old days, the tick system offered the same opportunity for variety - you were judged on how well you performed and less on what you performed.

Again, I remind you all that you are talking about individuals, separate groups and circuits. Generalization can lead to incorrect assumptions.

DCA corps vary quite a bit in makeup. Many of the corps are trending downward in age - including some of the more extablished groups. Renegades and others are the opposite - we are OLD compared to most of our competitors.

Good discussion - what are some positive actions that we as supporters of the activity can take?

[JimF-LowBari]

after the 83 fold and 84 six week tour comeback and rebuild, the corps got younger yet. in 1990, if you kick 4 guys out of the drumline, the average age was 18.

Have to dig up the shot from 1978 of our Triple line.

Two were in HS, one was either HS or college (can't remember) and the other was your dad on his farewell tour. To me, that shot told the whole story of our age breakdown.

And Holy ####, I left as a six season veteran at 22 years and a few weeks old.....

[MikeD]

Have to dig up the shot from 1978 of our Triple line.

Two were in HS, one was either HS or college (can't remember) and the other was your dad on his farewell tour. To me, that shot told the whole story of our age breakdown.

And Holy ####, I left as a six season veteran at 22 years and a few weeks old.....

After the 71 season, when Garfield fired George Tuthill a good portion of us in the drumline quit to march with the Cabs, where he was also the drum guy. The oldest of us was 19 or so. Most around 18.

I think about 6 or 7 of us went over (a lot in those days, percentaqge-wise)...though I shortly rejoined Garfield and played baritone in 72.

[WWonka]

Cabs 2003 Prelims Performance

Watch it...tell me what you think.

#### that show rocked... I know that's OT but I still have to give it up to you. I loved that show.

quote name='Jayzer' date='Feb 19 2006, 05:13 PM' post='1303102']

In the way most corps outside of DCI's top 6 don't interest me, that wasn't very interesting to me, either. It's been done.

Maybe so. But that still doesn't take away from when it is done well.

Edited February 22, 2006 by WWonka

[MiamiSun76]

DCA corps vary quite a bit in makeup. Many of the corps are trending downward in age - including some of the more extablished groups. Renegades and others are the opposite - we are OLD compared to most of our competitors.

Your point is worth heeding for some very practical reasons.

Senior corps depend on off-season performances much more than junior corps, whose membership scatters to the winds a couple of hours after DCI finals. If the senior environment becomes too unappealing to the young adult (and older) contingent, who will do those local money-makers? Not the high school kids. They'd like to be with the corps, but participation with their band is mandatory.

Also, the alumni of today's DCA corps marched when the age tolerance was a bit tighter. They have a difficult time relating to, and therefore contributing to (both time and money) their former corps if there aren't a few familiar faces around.

Switching to your other point; the sheets, DCA has got to find a way to set reasonable expectations for their visual programs. It's a real balancing act to keep visual programs contemporary without denying the aging of bodies and the limitations of weekend rehearsal time.

In fact, the whole thing is a balancing act and my hat is off to you and your counterparts who have not only kept this thing together, but made it grow. I think we'll make a big step forward when the Renegades or MBI or someone from beyond the Northeast takes it all. It might hurt the next year when the national champions don't compete every weekend, but it will solidify the activity.