JMS0527 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 As has been pointed out here on DCP, there is still much to learn, and we are seeing some negative issues with amplification. we must understand that change takes time, effort, more change, and the honest ability to re-evaluate how to use this technology... This is the third season....they should have a better idea with this by now...they've been given enough time..."gee, we're still trying to figure this out" doesn't cut it anymore whether or not DCI should simply provide one mixing board (with amplification and cable, mics) per show Absolutely not...Hopkins pushed for this crap in the first place...he can deal with the logistics of using it...really the same goes for all corps, not just the Cadets Yes, the argument can be made that everything was acoustic before. Well, it still is acoustic...just louder. Amplification does not change the instrument, it only amplifies the instrument. What we heard prior to 2004 were the resultant and inherent sounds from the instruments themselves...based solely by breathing through something or hitting something...no aid whatsoever...what you heard was what you got...we heard the sound naturally..what we heard was nothing other the sounds inherent with the instruments themselves...we heard nothing but the purely acoustic properties of those instruments Amplification is not natural..we now have an artificial conduit separating the audience from the natural acoustics we hear from the brass and percussion...an amplifier is not an instrument...it is not a creator of sound If you want a brass instrument to be heard, the person holding it has to engage in some form of physical work for it to play and be heard..all of the time...same thing with percussion An amplifier doesn't need that...set up and go...there may be adjustments necessary, but no form of physical work is required every second to get that amplifier to work...for the most part, I don't see that physical work happening at all Make all of the arguments you want about prior changes to drum corps: Various additions of valves Increasing expansion of percussion instruments and greater use of sources of noice that are not truly considered to be percussion instruments in the traditional sense Going from G instruments to any-key Drumlines switching from mylar to kevlar heads for the snares The deep sound of the toms evolving into the much more high-pitched sound of the modern tenors The evolution of the bass drums into the modern, usually 5-voiced, bass drum line where each person is literally a soloist except in unison passages, etc Despite all of this change, did we hear anything other than the natural, inherent, purely man-made, and purely acoustical sounds of the instruments in question? No..we didn't Everything out there is an instrument musically...the amplifier is not an instrument...it is an artificial, unnatural, and unneccesary conduit...it doesn't complement anything..it doesn't enhance anything When we use the word acoustic, what I've just said is what we mean by it or at least it's a start...others will add I'm sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyboy Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 (edited) Well, for one thing, they are using wireless mics. Is anyone else? Hmm. Really? Wireless. So, one with reasonable technical knowledge might cause deliberate interference/jamming at a show (it would be a very illegal device in the eyes of the FCC). So the next step in the escalating Corps Race to Amp Pits (CRAP) is to develop and deploy defensive electromagnetic counter-measures to use against devious staff- or fan-smuggled black boxes. Cool. Electronics CAN be fun! Edited July 2, 2006 by dannyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_S Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 If you want a brass instrument to be heard, the person holding it has to engage in some form of physical work for it to play and be heard..all of the time...same thing with percussion Amplification has not changed that at all. Amplification has enhanced the volume of the sounds that we hear, but their addition still requires the exact same set of skills that marching members have always displayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS0527 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Matt, That's not the inherent acoustical sound in and of itself anymore...an artifical means is used to increase the volume...the instrument itself isn't doing it anymore No form of physical work is being used at all to increase the volume here...an artificial means has been employed to do so...the natural acoustic properties characteristic of a particular instrument are no longer totally present in and of themselves Instrument--->acoustic result--->audience instrument--->acoustic result--->artificial alteration/affectation of the acoustic which is not needed since the acoustic result is already present--->audience Same set of physical skills? Yes Need to artificially alter those physical skills when the acoustics have already occurred naturally? No We have the natural sounds already through real physical instruments. An artificial construct...a non-instrument powered by electricity, not physical work....does create an interference with what is already occurring naturally Completely natural acoustics..that's what we're referring to...amplification is not natural at all...completely artificial...the natural acoustics are now interfered with unnecessarily, thus the sonic result is no longer completely and physically natural Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmontal Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 There's a huge gap between what the judges think is good and what the fans think is good, and that is something that's definitely not good for the future of DCI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Amplification has not changed that at all. Amplification has enhanced the volume of the sounds that we hear, but their addition still requires the exact same set of skills that marching members have always displayed. We have gone from addressing pit balance issues to what corps are doing with amps today in just a few years. Following is ripped off from a thread I started last week which didn't go too far. No disrespect to Matts post, his is just the best quote to respond to. *ripoff follows* The reasoning behind the original amp proposal was so the mallet players could use proper technique to be heard. IOW there was a sound balance issue between the pit and the rest of the corps. Answer was to amp the pit to achieve balance for that area of the corps. Now we have amped vocals. Why? <pause 2 seconds > Because unamped vocals cannot be heard over the corps or in the stands. IOW - yes another balance problem. In my job I have to think ahead to the next few steps. Did the same thing here and realize the only thing holding back balancing the entire corps is a lack of technology. My thoughts are that when technology catches up someone will want to rig up an entire corps so they can be balanced the same way you see at rock concerts. *end of ripoff* Forgot to mention use of soundboards in original thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelerand Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Now we have amped vocals. Why? <pause 2 seconds > Because unamped vocals cannot be heard over the corps or in the stands. IOW - yes another balance problem. Which begs the question, why do we have vocals at all??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Which begs the question, why do we have vocals at all??? They have been legal for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 (edited) They have been legal for decades. Westshoremen (DCA) did vocals in late 80s/early 90s as their closing number ("Music") started with the entire corps singing the words of the first verse. And yes (even as an Alumni) I hated it. :( But I did give them a "golf clap" for their efforts. :P Edited July 3, 2006 by JimF-xWSMBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekneek Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 But they did use the recording from finals on the videos, didn't they? That 1989 BD finals performance isn't locked away or lost forever, it's out there and people have heard it and can hear it. True and it is actually on a CD I bought directly from BD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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