What's with all the negativity?

[InHiFiStereo]

True. But some cannot contribute to the activity with their time and can only contribute with their money. And they do -- by going to shows, by purchasing souvies, by donating money to the corps, etc. Does this not entitle them to voice their opinion and/or "request" changes??

I take issue with that in the sense that if you pay to go to a show yet you still complain about what you saw there, are you not contributing to the thing that you despise by purchasing that ticket. In the eye of the corps you paid to see the corps but yet you complain. Your dollars for that show further propels the use of amps or anything else you can't stand to be in drum corps. Remember, actions speak louder than words.

[kusankusho]

3 out of 4 ain't bad! :P

That's what I get for trying to be just a little balanced...... :(

[Liam]

I take issue with that in the sense that if you pay to go to a show yet you still complain about what you saw there, are you not contributing to the thing that you despise by purchasing that ticket. In the eye of the corps you paid to see the corps but yet you complain. Your dollars for that show further propels the use of amps or anything else you can't stand to be in drum corps. Remember, actions speak louder than words.

Understood. What I was replying to was a suggestion (paraphrased) that if you don't give of your time and get involved then you have no standing to complain. The old "if you think you can do better then get out there and do it" argument. What I was trying to convey was that people contribute in any way they can and some can only give money and vocal support at shows instead of volunteer time, etc. To your point, I think the ticket buying (and souvie buying, etc) contributor has just as much right to voice their opinion on these boards as anyone else. There is nothing wrong with saying "yes I gave you my money this time because I generally enjoy the product, but these issues still concern me." If those issues continue to overwhelm the enjoyment of the activity, then the contributor may very well pull that support. It can't be that he/she can't complain about anything while paying and can only complain when he/she stops supporting.

I get your point, though .... it's a fine line and can easily be misinterpreted as "well he's still paying, so he must like it".

Maybe if there were a competing product with whom to send a message with our dollars ......

(Counting backwards from ten until someone posts certain initials in response....)

[PhantomFanT10]

What I never understood is why people are generally disgusted with the activity and then come online to complain about it rather than just getting on with life if DCI doesn't do it for them anymore. For instance, if and when woodwinds become apart of DCI drum corps, I would leave the activity in its entirety. I would not sit on DCP and complain about how drum corps was ruined.

[Liam]

What I never understood is why people are generally disgusted with the activity and then come online to complain about it rather than just getting on with life if DCI doesn't do it for them anymore. For instance, if and when woodwinds become apart of DCI drum corps, I would leave the activity in its entirety. I would not sit on DCP and complain about how drum corps was ruined.

And that's what you should do -- if you thought that drum corps was ruined. But not everything rises to that level. You may not like certain aspects of the activity, but still enjoy the activity as a whole. In other words, not everything that you disagree with rises to the level of "ruining drum corps". Is it not allowed, then, to continue to support the activity in general while complaining/decrying/etc about certain specific aspects?

Just because people are passionate about certain big issues these days doesn't necessarily mean that are "disgusted with the activity".

Edited July 11, 2006 by Liam

[MikeD]

That's what I get for trying to be just a little balanced...... :(

Hey..you DID see the :P I hope!

[kusankusho]

Hey..you DID see the :P I hope!

Yes - I thought by now you would know when I'm being silly..... :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P There - that should cover it.....

Edited July 11, 2006 by kusankusho

[apoch003]

"personally I think the so called fan reactions this year are rediculous. This is really one of the best seasons in a while. Look at the top like eight corps they are all close, the competition is great, I think its exciting to see that many programs on the upswing. People love to hate who ever is on top, cadets right now are getting the reprocussions of being the champs last year, its the same way when anyone else wins. As far as drum corp changing goes, I would like for everyone who is complaining to pull a video from like nineteen eighty three and watch it, then watch a show from this year, any of them, and come back on this page and say you liked it better in eighty three. Sometimes you guys really sound like a bunch of old wash women complaining about that devil music called rock and roll that their kids are all listening to , think about it. Either way one thing has definetly stayed the same, all the corps work their buts off to be great, the are all excellent musicians, and they all deserve the respect that they have worked for all summer, wether they are blue devils B, or the cadets, please show them some love they all deserve it! "

I don't believe the "people love to hate whomever is on top" theory. It's rubbish.

And "...so-called fans" is insulting to the people who pay year after year to see the shows.

And I DID like it better in 83. At least you could hear the melodies. Garfield doing Bernsteins Mass, Phantom doing the 1812 overture, etc... It was a brilliant year for drum corps.

[Blue Devil Legend]

People love to hate who ever is on top, cadets right now are getting the reprocussions of being the champs last year, its the same way when anyone else wins.

There's alot of truth to that. From experience, we (Dev's) went from being the "darlings of drum corps" in '75-'76 to the receivers of ALOT of scrutiny during my final years with the corps ('77- '80)

Personally, I took it as a compliment, and also used it for motivation, as most of the organization did. I like to call it the "Yankees Syndrome". :P

[sop16]

LOTS of people hated Bayonne donning the banana unis...primarily legacy fans of 1976 who thought it sacrilege. As St Andrew's they used to wear cream colored Cadet-style jackets and black pants with yellow trim (e.g. cummerbund), if memory serves.

Lots of folks hated grounding timps and mallets to create the pit. I've read/heard "if you can't carry it don't use it" comments as recently as this week.

BAC had their show decimated at 69 VFW's when their bells were outlawed.

People hated when corps did not have to start in one end-zone and exit out the other.

Folks hated the Scouts, Cavies, and Garfield doing total-themed shows in 1971.

Who decides what changes are bad and good?

Who decides? It's the judges at finals who decide, and also the members corps themselves, who decide on the score structure that places importance on what they think should count the most to the final score. Corps are out there to win. Corps using asymmetrical drill got consistently higher scores at some point so everyone started doing it. More recently the corps that used Bb instruments when they were first legalized got higher scores so mostly everyone started using Bb.

If a show like this year's Cadets show wins this year, after they also won last year, it will create a precedent for the future. When it comes down to it, it doesn't matter what the reaction of the crowd is or how many posts get put up on DCP about how much people hate amps or Bb instruments or pink picnic tables. All that matters at the end of it all is the numbers.

It's all about survival of the fittest. Drum corps is a continuously evolving phenomenon. Whatever changes are successful will be carried through to the next years and those that are not so successful will be abandoned.

It is possible to innovate using the tools that already exist in drum corps. Take a look at the Cavaliers show (just as an example). It's different from anything put out there before but if you think about it, they only use horns, percussion and guard and they don't even use any props, but the show is one that I want to see a few more times just because it is so amazingly well designed and well performed.

Making the pit stationary was not a big change. It's the same instruments after all (only bigger and harder to carry), and the same sound. Legalizing amped vocals is in effect adding another instrument to the repertoire, and it should have been considered more carefully IMO. Amping the pit instruments is one thing, and many corps do it in a way that enhances the music (and some have forgone the amps and still their pit sounds good and balanced), but including in that rule that vocals should be allowed to be amped as well was a huge step and should have been considered separately from just amping the pit.

There really is no point in complaining about amped vocals. I don't really like them, and I think the mellophone soloist(s) in the Crossmen should be very upset that nobody can hear his/her/their solos over the amped narration (both times in the show, at least what I could hear in the dome at Indy), but what is complaining going to do? It's all up to the judges, the member corps themselves who make the rules, and the show designers who choose what to put in the shows based on what they believe is best for their drum corps.