What's with all the negativity?

[MikeD]

Yes - I thought by now you would know when I'm being silly..... :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P There - that should cover it.....

And then some! :)

[MikeD]

It is possible to innovate using the tools that already exist in drum corps. Take a look at the Cavaliers show (just as an example). It's different from anything put out there before but if you think about it, they only use horns, percussion and guard and they don't even use any props, but the show is one that I want to see a few more times just because it is so amazingly well designed and well performed.

Amps and micced vocals are "tools that already exist in drum corps".

[Blue Devil Legend]

Making the pit stationary was not a big change. It's the same instruments after all (only bigger and harder to carry), and the same sound.

Personally, I felt this was brilliant.

In no way, shape, or form did these instruments add to the visual effect of the show design.

[Liam]

It's all up to the judges, the member corps themselves who make the rules, and the show designers who choose what to put in the shows based on what they believe is best for their drum corps.

In the immediate sense, yes. But, ultimately, it's up to the ticket-buying/souvie-buying/donation-making supporters/fans. It just takes a lot longer to shake this out, and even when it does it's difficult to point to one specific thing that drove folks away or made them come in droves. Over time, if support continues, than the direction the activity took has been generally accepted; if not, then not.

[SkyRyder_FMM]

Amps and micced vocals are "tools that already exist in drum corps".

While this may be true now, it wasn't until 2004. It's pretty clear from the post that they were referring to pre 2004.

[MikeD]

While this may be true now, it wasn't until 2004. It's pretty clear from the post that they were referring to pre 2004.

You could say that about anything that did not exist one year, and then did the next...e.g. mallets.

[SkyRyder_FMM]

You could say that about anything that did not exist one year, and then did the next...e.g. mallets.

Yes, but by rubbing the posters face in the fact that amps are now legal, your response misses the point of the post. I know you are smart enough to have gotten the point, so your response really added nothing to the discussion.

[sop16]

In the immediate sense, yes. But, ultimately, it's up to the ticket-buying/souvie-buying/donation-making supporters/fans. It just takes a lot longer to shake this out, and even when it does it's difficult to point to one specific thing that drove folks away or made them come in droves. Over time, if support continues, than the direction the activity took has been generally accepted; if not, then not.

Do you really think that show designers consider this? They want their corps to do well this year, and they base that on what each component of the performance is worth numbers-wise and what corps have been given credit for in the immediate past. Perhaps when the DCI member corps have their meetings to decide on the score structure they might consider public support, crowd reaction, etc., and the resulting effect on revenue, but what each of them is actually focused on is the best interests of their own corps, because placement determines how well a corps will get paid for the shows, and of course it also determines to a large extent how next year's recruitment will go, which will also affect their scores and placements etc. Only if there is a huge change in the number of fans that attend shows and support drum corps will there be any effect from this in the show designs, and even then it will be delayed and it may be too late by that time.

[GregZ]

Look at it this way...Suppose you have a busy life and live where you can only get to maybe one to two DCI shows a year. You leave work early, spend lots of $$$$ on gas, fight the traffic and finally get to the stadium. If you are lucky, you will have maybe 3 top 7 or 8 corps there. Maybe two really excite you and the rest......well, they seem to lack what you are looking and listening for. Picnic tables in drum corps, singing and narration don't do a thing for me. Turn those kids loose for heaven's sake and let them make the stadium seats vibrate like they used to.

This problem is not going to go away as show designers and DCI are going, if they haven't already, another direction. What they fail to realize is that if attendance at a show is say 3,000, I would say that 2,789 have no clue what the corps "themes" are all about. Those people don't keep up with drum corps the way we all do in here. So they sit there befuddled for the majority of the time.

I would also like to say that the main reason we complain about the corps shows is because we care. There are only so many drum corps and when 90% bore us, then something is drastically wrong. Just remember....it used to be that high school bands copied from drum corps. Now it's the opposite in a lot of cases. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is the way it seems to me.

[Liam]

Do you really think that show designers consider this? They want their corps to do well this year, and they base that on what each component of the performance is worth numbers-wise and what corps have been given credit for in the immediate past. Perhaps when the DCI member corps have their meetings to decide on the score structure they might consider public support, crowd reaction, etc., and the resulting effect on revenue, but what each of them is actually focused on is the best interests of their own corps, because placement determines how well a corps will get paid for the shows, and of course it also determines to a large extent how next year's recruitment will go, which will also affect their scores and placements etc. Only if there is a huge change in the number of fans that attend shows and support drum corps will there be any effect from this in the show designs, and even then it will be delayed and it may be too late by that time.

Not sure, but I think you just said the exact same thing I said, sentiment-wise :)

This kind of thing has a momentum all its own and it's hard to say that this or that will change the course. Rules changes lead to judging interpretations which lead to placements which lead to future design ideas which lead to increased or decreased crowd response (depending). Designers for any one particular year will write a show that they feel will maximize the corps placement in that year, within the current set of rules and judging tendencies. Understood. But that doesn't mean that a seperate discussion can't be had among fans, corps directors, whomever, about the long-term future of the activity and will the fan base (read: money and support) increase or decrease over time given said changes. This is a legitimate discussion/argument even though it will not have any effect on this year's programs or placement.

Really, I'm not disagreeing with you ..... :)