dans Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Scores don't work out the way you want, so the judges must be biased...who's being childish?? No, I said what I said because certain judges have not given the Cadets any feedback (isn't that their job?), constructive, or otherwise. You certainly jump to you own conclusions quickly and often, that must take alot of energy. Relax, let people speak for themselves! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Excellent review! Enjoyed reading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rut-roh Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 (edited) No, I said what I said because certain judges have not given the Cadets any feedback (isn't that their job?), constructive, or otherwise. Yeah, I read George's blog too. Funny how he forgets to mention that the people who he wanted to comment on the woman in yellow and the pink benches were giving the Cadets a FIRST READ in Denver. How any judge is expected to comment on everything in THAT show on a first read is beyond me. You certainly jump to you own conclusions quickly and often, that must take alot of energy. Relax, let people speak for themselves! I'm quite relaxed, actually. And I'm letting you say whatever you want. Keep saying the judges are biased for all I care. It doesn't mean I have to agree with you. It doesn't mean I can't call shenanigans on a statement like that if I feel like it. You or I can love the 2006 Cadets all we want...and believe it or not, the show is growing on me. We can heap praise upon glorious praise on this show until we run out of superlatives. It doesn't change the fact that, as it currently stands, no matter how wonderful the show is in comparison to an overwhelming number of its competitors, THIS SHOW HAS ISSUES. Pacing issues, staging issues, transition issues and character issues. Even a few performance issues here and there. And George knows it. That's why they're doing 26 page drill re-writes. That's why he's adjusting the dialogue and the character interaction. And don't worry. They'll get all that figured out. They always do. They'll be there in the end fighting for another title. And some of those same judges will give George exactly what he wants. Some won't. That's drum corps. But let's leave the "biased" nonsense out of it. It's a non-factor. Edited July 18, 2006 by rut-roh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScribeToo Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 we're all gonna be in trouble if dad has to pull this thread over.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bksrbsfl Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Your review was pretty good. I was there with even better seats than yours (unless you were in the upstairs judging box - we kept getting distracted by their loudness while taping their comments..), and can comply with most of your opinions. Yes, the judges did get the order right - I didn't like the gaps though, and that's what the judges who didn't see the head-to-head will use against the 2nd 4th and 6th Corps when they all get to san antone. Cavies smoked it, but there were some harsh moments in drill, sound and guard. Cadets are ~good but have a really stupid show. Vanguard is in a race against time to clean, as usual, but may just make it. Blue Knights carry their tradition of intricate boringness to new "heights". Crossmen are kinda almost ~good but have a really, really (really) stupid show. Blue Stars are _way_ too good for their off-the-shelf highschool-band show. Turn off the mics and let actions speak louder than words. Cascades are loud and proud. There's plenty more to clean, and I think they're the only one of the bunch that will actually acheive their full potential come Madison. All-in-all I was a little depressed for the activity after this show. I'll be in Madison and will probably report more simmilar cynical carping... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeWee Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 All-in-all I was a little depressed for the activity after this show. I'll be in Madison and will probably report more simmilar cynical carping... Gee, I can hardly wait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bksrbsfl Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 yea, it sucks here in the future... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardman Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Hello "cardman"!To the point. . . and risking your wrath. . . One person's "rude" is another person's "honest opinion". I don't know anyone who truly embarks on the quest for greatness that would rather receive half-hearted compliments, accolades, and encrypted commentary when, instead, they could have heard honest criticism and considered its validity. There's no "giving up" implied or expressed in my review. I call it as I see it. . . with no regrets or false hopes. It doesn't matter to me where the Crossmen or any other corps end up come Finals week. In point of fact, there are at least 12, and possibly 15 other drum corps in Division I that are better than the Crossmen at this point in the season. There are 3 weeks left. If someone is a huge Crossmen fan, I would hate for that fan to miss out on their favorite corps by only showing up on Saturday and wondering what happened. . . not great odds to play. . . and the Crossmen do not have a history of making great end-of-season comebacks when this far back in the field. One jump from 8th to 6th in Finals 15 years ago hardly constitutes regular occurance. Nor is the "momentum factor" of 1996 and 1997 applicable to the current situation. . . there is no momentum. No more. No less. No anger. No joy. No baggage. Just "is". I am not affiliated with the Crossmen, and have not been since the middle of summer in 2003 for all practical purposes. No ill will -- not even a little! But a serious difference of opinion about what works competitively, and what constitutes "great" programming and performance. They are "good" right now -- Low Box 4. As always, the kids work hard, and are wonderful people -- and are getting a great social experience as well as life experience. I'm sure they wouldn't trade it for anything, and there is a very LARGE mystique and pride within the Crossmen membership about the "Bones" tradition. It's unique and thrilling!! It's worth the price of the ride!! It still won't keep them busy on Saturday night come Finals Week. My review was of design and performance -- not "heart". Every single performer out there has "heart", or they'd be at home playing X-Box 360 and churning out minimum wage at Sonic Burger all summer instead of living their dreams. I applaud and respect their choices. I could have gushed at all the wonderful things kids do for every show. Instead, I chose to actually review what I experienced, from my point of view, with my experience, and express my un-candy-coated opinion -- always at the risk of offending others. What I cannot control is anyone else's opinion -- nor would I try. You and every other warm, wonderful Crossmen-loving fan is free to wait until Saturday and see who made it. But if I was a parent, and wanted to see my son or daughter perform in Madison. . . Upon reflection, I stand by the review. Very best to all -- and thanks for all the kind words from everyone regarding the review -- I had no idea it would generate any interest at all quite honestly. Chuck Naffier Retired Chuck, You can call me Jeff if you want...(my name is in my sig, like yours). Wrath? There's no wrath here... I understand that you were "calling it like you see it". Simon Cowell does the same thing. Simon Cowell is an ###, in my opinion. Anytime someone says "I don't sugar-coat my opinions" means they're probably about to say something rude. Please don't take this as me trying to insult you in any way. I am just offering my opinion of the "honest truth" mentality. You SHOULD be honest, of course! But, I believe there are nicer ways of expressing that honesty. I can't believe I'm arguing for reviews to be more "PC"... It's not WHAT you said, but HOW you said it. Your statement about the Crossmen not making finals was said in a way as if it was solid fact, and unavoidable. And, your past involvement in the activity may lead some to believe, "Well, he used to arrange for them, so he MUST be right!.." Just look at the number of people that jumped in here to say how great your review was. I'm not saying it wasn't a great review, but the fact that all these people came in and commented on it...You yourself were surprised by this. It's the "celebrity factor". Yes, I know you are not really a "celebrity" per se, but you are a very well-known arranger, and for many on this board (unfortunately), you word carries more weight than others. I'm not saying your experience means nothing, either....it most certainly does....but, anything can happen, and the season is not over yet. (and I DO realize there is not much time left.) All that being said, you have every right to post your opinions as you see fit, and you shouldn't have to "censor" yourself just because many on this board may lose hope for the Crossmen's chances to make finals after reading your review. I'm not a huge Crossmen fan. In fact, I am a pretty vocal representative of the "anti-amped voice in drumcorps" movement (if you wanna call it that...lol). Heck, just look at the pic in my sig...(never took the time to change it to "Amped vocals"). I have only seen the show on youtube.com, and I liked it okay, but this is not a case of a "huge Crossmen fan" trying to defend his favorite corps. I like the Crossmen, and always have. My only reason for posting was to just express my opinion that your statement could be interpreted as being a bit rude. But, in the end Chuck, it doesn't really matter. Do what you want to do. People obviously enjoy your reviews (I did as well), and it's a free country. I hate to seem like I'm all worked up over this, because I'm not. I don't know you personally. As far as I'm concerned, you're the nicest guy in the world, because I have no idea. I was just trying to offer a suggestion to maybe take a little bit softer approach to criticism (unless you're talking about the Cadet's show, lol ^0^ ). Okay, I have to get a life...This isn't really important at all... :sos: Your review was pretty good.I was there with even better seats than yours (unless you were in the upstairs judging box - we kept getting distracted by their loudness while taping their comments..), and can comply with most of your opinions. Yes, the judges did get the order right - I didn't like the gaps though, and that's what the judges who didn't see the head-to-head will use against the 2nd 4th and 6th Corps when they all get to san antone. Cavies smoked it, but there were some harsh moments in drill, sound and guard. Cadets are ~good but have a really stupid show. Vanguard is in a race against time to clean, as usual, but may just make it. Blue Knights carry their tradition of intricate boringness to new "heights". Crossmen are kinda almost ~good but have a really, really (really) stupid show. Blue Stars are _way_ too good for their off-the-shelf highschool-band show. Turn off the mics and let actions speak louder than words. Cascades are loud and proud. There's plenty more to clean, and I think they're the only one of the bunch that will actually acheive their full potential come Madison. All-in-all I was a little depressed for the activity after this show. I'll be in Madison and will probably report more simmilar cynical carping... Okay, take everything that I said above, and multiply it about ten times. "off-the-shelf highschool-band show"? (that's a lot of hyphens, lol) Don't be so rude. People are going to put you on their "ignored users" list if you keep this sort of thing up. <**> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScribeToo Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Jeff, With a lot of the pictures and banners people put in their sigs that extend the page left or right -- or just take up space or memory on older computers, he may have turned the signature feature off -- that's why he may be calling you by your ID, not your name. Secondly, I'm not sure what offense you take at any of Chuck's comments. He was critical without being sugary.. his critique is obviously based on things he not only KNOWS but things he PRACTICES and TEACHES.. I've heard judges tapes that are far worse than anything he said.. and based on the way he said it, the only way to "say it nicer" as you've suggested is to sugarcoat it and turn it PC. Let's just, in the interest of moving forward, say that you disagree with him and not nitpick how he said it. He said it. Lots of us who read it found no objection in the things he said -- even the more critical of his words. I suspect the LAST guy who needs an "education" in how to give a critique is probably Chuck Naffier. Stef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_S Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 All-in-all I was a little depressed for the activity after this show. I'll be in Madison and will probably report more simmilar cynical carping... Since you clearly didn't enjoy the shows in Denver, why punish yourself with a trip to Madison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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