The Drum Corps Activity is Healthier Than Ever!

[shionolee]

"shionolee," what are YOU doing to help grow, branch out, or preserve the activity?

Many new corps in Japan. Was not wanting life story, with lots of angst. Must hit a nerve, sorry.

[nemesiscorps]

No...you are weak...if you've read this forum thoroughly....which obviously you haven't...spokesmen for DCM said they didn't quit the circuit becasue of DCI. They called the circuit for the last two years...(after some corps left for DCI-Central) as successful...as having balanced their books. THESE ARE THEIR WORDS...NOT MINE.

You don't even know who you are talking to if you say I don't have an idea of drum corps history. At 46 years old...I've been involved in the activity since for over 38 years. Eat it. Yes...for non math majors out there...I WAS 8.

So instead of sticking my head in the sand...I've tried to adapt to the changes drum corps has gone through. I'm so glad there's no ticks anymore...no gun shots on the field. And I, for one, have had my fillof park and barks by hornlines.

I know I'll never convince you and you haven't come close to convincing me...so let's just say that you like things pre...what? Combine? Ok fine...

I like some things pre-Combine. Loud freakin hornlines being at the top of my list.

I like lots of things post Combine as well. I'm watching 2003 finals from Orlando as I speak...the 7-12 corps were awesome that year. I was reminded of Magic when they had a good year.

Anyway...everything in drum corps today is bad...you're right...let's crawl back into our way back machine and dial in the year 1977...is that far enough back for you?

Boy oh boy, relax there cowboy.

I admit that you're right, I should have been more civil in my response to you. I really didn't mean to offend you, but I do disagree with you sharply. I apologize.

Anyway, I think that we're both doing a lot of assuming here. First, you've got me beat when it comes to time on. I'm an early 80's traditionalist, so I have no direct knowledge of the pre-combine years, but I am also a researcher by nature, willing to let the research answer my questions rather than allow my admitted bias to dictate conclusions. I too still enjoy numerous shows from every decade of the activity, so again you miss my point.

Why do you keep referencing "old time" drum corps practices? Ticks, blasting hornlines, etc. I did not experience any of that in my years, and while I don't devalue those things, I'm certainly not advocating that these things return. You have no concept of what I'm talking about. I simply want the efforts to be anything other than an actual drum & bugle corps to stop. People like you speak as if the 80's and 90's sucked or something. Imagine, corps actually playing on those barbaric G bugles... how antiquated and uncivilized can you get! I just haven't got my nose so far up in the air that I actually believe that a good quality musician will sound better on a B flat trumpet than a G bugle. I know that the quality of my playing is exactly the same, regardless of if I play my B flat trumpet, C trumpet, Eb Trumpet, G Bugle, or my two piston value Olds Ultratone II soprano that I palyed in the Marine Corps in the late 80's. Understanding that some instruments are of higher quality than others, I know that it really comes down to ME, not the horn I'm playing.

As far as the DCM issue is concerned, I never said that they publically blamed DCI for the circuit folding. They are too classy to do such a thing, and there would be no gain in doing so anyway. They naturally made a public statement that was honorable and classy under the circumstances, which was the right thing to do, but it doesn't change the fact that the "choice" to fold DCM was not due to any other factors beyond them being crushed by DCI taking the region over in a power play. There was not enough left when the dust settled to sustain the circuit. It's simply a fact that can't be erased. Balancing the books was not the goal during the last two years... maintaining a home for Div. II-III was the goal, and we obviously couldn't get it done due to the break away of the Div. I corps.

I will say that I like things best when there was clear distinction between a corps and a marching band, based upon instrumentation (when corps actually used bugles, including three valves), just because there was an actual difference between the two, and corps were proud of what they were and who they were, just like during the days when corps got no respect from the marching band world... simply because they were drum & bugle corps, and not "real" musicians on "real instruments".

I will never understand what drives people like you to devalue what the corps activity has been for so long, in that you must continue to "evolve" toward something else. Why do you continually push an agenda to "change" an activity beyond what its core elements are, to the point where there is no longer any legitimate distinction from similar activities. And in defense of your position you all fall back on accusing people of wanting to use valve-roter horns, to have corps stand inspection before shows and enter the field from the "starting line". Why? Why?

Drum corps was great and unique once upon a time... not too long ago. What we have today is not a bad thing, it simply no longer fits many people's view of what a drum & bugle corps is or should be. Why is that such a problem for you? I don't know anyone that doesn't want progress and creative development to occur, along with improvements in instrumentation and equipment. But I do know a lot of people that don't buy what's being offered anymore as the drum corps activity. It's a legitimate position, but one you can obviously never understand.

[nemesiscorps]

By the way...DCI has a revenue sharing plan called a fuel fund for all member corps.

Boy that's good to know. I'm sure this effort helps all the non-member corps to appreciate DCI and its thoughfulness in sharing fuel money with the corps that are "good enough". What an effort by DCI to level the playing field for all the corps trying hard to give members a worthwhile experience. I can imagine how this effort will give me more incentive to the non-member corps to get better so they can benefit by this one day. But wait, that probably doesn't matter because even if they get better, they won't be able to afford to get to the shows to actually compete. Oh well. All hail DCI, championing the cause for all its member corps!

[Lance]

Yes, yes, yes, dci is evil. We know. It is awful for drum corps, which isn't healthy at all. Drum corps today isn't unique, blah blah blah. We've heard it all before, but welcome to the party. :)

[dannyboy]

DCM could no longer compete against the power of DCI when the Div. I corps decided to break from the union. As a result, and in order to keep their shows alive, the long time DCM show sponsors were forced to go where the Div. I corps would compete. Without show sponsors you have no shows, without shows you have no way for Div. II-III corps to make money to sustain themselves. They held out for as long as they could, but DCM ultimately became a shadow of its former self when the split occurred. DCI and each of the Div. I corps understood this would be the case, so the empire/monopoly of DCI was finally established with their decision to leave DCM. And your reference to "balancing their books" is not relevant. Simply because they chose not to put the circuit into financial distress does not mean they were "successful" in meeting their goals to create and preserve corps and contest sponsors.

Correct for the most part. But looking back DCI was not the bad guy, in their (Midwest DI) minds, there was a lot of redundancy for them, and for them it probably made sense to just deal with one circuit and one tour. But their exit left the Division II/III/All-age corps with issues that meant survival; loss of DCM would spell the loss of much of the June schedule - traditionally local/regional shows they could afford to travel to. This would seriously hurt any non-touring DIII, and put the Midwest Seniors/All-age at serious risk.

DCM had money after the Division I corps left due to the fact that when the NIU football players mowed over the Capital Regiment kids on the practice field in DeKalb, NIU ended up not charging DCM for the facility and other costs. Somebody can correct me on the amount but I think it was almost $30,000 in the budget that didn't get used because of the no-charge by NIU. So, for the first time there was actually a bunch of extra money in DCM savings. The Division I corps pulled out to go exclusive with DCI. The next year, DCM leadership tapped that savings to pull-off a decent season with judges-- and we used a fair chunk of that money to partially subsidize bringing in Renegades, and getting The Marines Drum and Bugle Corps to DeKalb with the hope of them helping draw and sell tickets. It was a decent season but it ate up much of the savings.

The following year, we had even fewer corps (or they "left" and then bargained for more money to do a choice show or two.)

There was simply not enough income to hire a full slate of judges for each show, so we had to resort to only having adjudication at about half the shows, and VIP Judges with special criteria/adjudication sheets for the other half. It was the best that we could do. The kids didn't seem to mind too much; they seemed happy to be performing and have a show to perform in.

Despite two trips to DeKalb by Brent (Chair) Amber (Sect'y) and myself (Vice Chair) to try to negotiate a more reasonable rate for the NIU stadium, we were pretty much stuck with the way-to-big and expensive venue for what was to end up being the last DCM Championships. I suppose it was good to have, what ended up being the last DCM, at "home." I credit the whole crew and Roman for managing to finish the final season a tad in the black. No debts. Although DCM staff - Roman, Sue and Murray worked pretty much for free the final year to make it happen. So I suppose we owe them. Also thanks to a few sponsors such as Yamaha, Dynasty and an advertising exchange with DCP, and support from the DeKalb Convention and Visitor's Bureau whom did a lot of above-and-beyond leg work for us. I'm still amazed were able to do what we did on so little money.

At the November 2005 meeting (I was unable to attend) the majority of DCM corps representatives/board members in attendance decided there was not going to be enough participation to continue a circuit, as two corps attending the meeting were intending to pull out and it was clear Blue Stars would not participate in any capacity. Bandettes had gone inactive, as had Lake Erie Regiment. Marion Cadets were gone and Joliet Kingsmen went inactive.

DCM for 2006 would have probably just been Pioneer, Capitol Sound, Racine Scouts and Kilties.. and maybe Royal Airs but they were exhibition and died anyway. Four corps do not make a circuit. Four corps do not even make a show.

The End.

Edited October 29, 2006 by dannyboy

[Tom Brace]

I will never understand what drives people like you to devalue what the corps activity has been for so long, in that you must continue to "evolve" toward something else. Why do you continually push an agenda to "change" an activity beyond what its core elements are, to the point where there is no longer any legitimate distinction from similar activities. And in defense of your position you all fall back on accusing people of wanting to use valve-roter horns, to have corps stand inspection before shows and enter the field from the "starting line". Why? Why?

Not devalue...it is a snapshot...that's all. 1993 Regiment is my all-time favorite show. Yes, on G bugles. I think the members of today are the best to answer your dilemma. Apparently, they are turning out in record numbers to audition for Div. I DCI corps. Because there are many all-ages corps in DCA where these young people could choose to march G Bugles, etc. But they choose DCI Div. I auditions.

Drum corps was great and unique once upon a time... not too long ago.

Agreed. I believe it is still unique. I've gone the way of protecting the wrists of young playters in the pit, but I hate unbalanced amps and I absolutely abhor the use of voice, signs, banners, and words in any form displayed on the field. I'm not a proponent of choral singing (except as a brass warm-up) either.

What we have today is not a bad thing, it simply no longer fits many people's view of what a drum & bugle corps is or should be. Why is that such a problem for you? I don't know anyone that doesn't want progress and creative development to occur, along with improvements in instrumentation and equipment. But I do know a lot of people that don't buy what's being offered anymore as the drum corps activity. It's a legitimate position, but one you can obviously never understand.

No, you get me wrong...I understand it completely. I just adamently disagree with it.

And now that we have both calmed down...it was good sharing your insight, I hope you found somethin of interest in what I wrote. As far as the DCM thing...the reason it got me so wrangled as I expressed the same reason for DCMs failure...that it was a product of the big DCI corps pulling out and someone evidently connected with DCM said absolutely not...we had two successful seasons without those corps. When I asked this person to define successful...they told me that they balanced their books. What a completely outrageous statement.

As far as that time period goes...DCM was already dropping in the number of show sponsors...there were issues of some in management trying to serve too many masters...you were there...you know all of this. It is unfortunate, because it meant for me (living between Rockford and Madison) that I could see 15+ shows a summer within 2 1/2 hours of my house. Not any more.

So this thread has been about the health of the drum corps activity...well it's definitely thinner...and you know what they say in all the magazines...thin is in. Maybe that makes Calista Flockhart a drum corps....hmmm.....ick.

[Tom Brace]

Boy that's good to know. I'm sure this effort helps all the non-member corps to appreciate DCI and its thoughfulness in sharing fuel money with the corps that are "good enough". What an effort by DCI to level the playing field for all the corps trying hard to give members a worthwhile experience. I can imagine how this effort will give me more incentive to the non-member corps to get better so they can benefit by this one day. But wait, that probably doesn't matter because even if they get better, they won't be able to afford to get to the shows to actually compete. Oh well. All hail DCI, championing the cause for all its member corps!

let me help you here a bit nemesis....

DCI is governed by the member corps. They are the board members of DCI. DCI isn't some extra entity stuck on top of drum corps. It's a segment of drum corps...like DCA is a segment of drum corps. If they choose to enact something for the betterment of themselves...I guess who are we to argue. If they choose to pay only themselves for show appearances...who are we to argue.

You can always stay home...go to DCA shows.... buy old videos....whatever. No one foraces anyone to support DCI. People (and last year in record numbers) choose to support DCI and buy tickets to shows. I happen to be one of them.

I also support the local non-member Div. II corps in Tempe, where I live now. Thye don't get one red cent of that fuel fund...but I will find a way to maek sure they get some of my money. Because I like them and they are a bunch of great young humans. They play spiffy and they sweat and learn and work hard just like other drum corps. They are also my local corps...so I support them.

[nemesiscorps]

let me help you here a bit nemesis....

DCI is governed by the member corps. They are the board members of DCI. DCI isn't some extra entity stuck on top of drum corps. It's a segment of drum corps...like DCA is a segment of drum corps. If they choose to enact something for the betterment of themselves...I guess who are we to argue. If they choose to pay only themselves for show appearances...who are we to argue.

You can always stay home...go to DCA shows.... buy old videos....whatever. No one foraces anyone to support DCI. People (and last year in record numbers) choose to support DCI and buy tickets to shows. I happen to be one of them.

I also support the local non-member Div. II corps in Tempe, where I live now. Thye don't get one red cent of that fuel fund...but I will find a way to maek sure they get some of my money. Because I like them and they are a bunch of great young humans. They play spiffy and they sweat and learn and work hard just like other drum corps. They are also my local corps...so I support them.

Uh oh... I think we're more alike than I wish to admit.

I'm quite aware of what DCI's role is in the activity, and I'm also aware that in many of the Div. I corps director's minds, they ARE the activity. It's pretty much a true statement since they drive the trends, set the standards, and most importantly, create revenue. My problem is that I feel since they dominate the activity on virtually every level, there is a moral and ethical responsibility that goes with that. They are extraordinarily talented and creative individuals, and they have the ability to build the institution of drum corps in ways that could have dramatic and sweeping positive affects on communities and the lives of families and kids. They have no obligation to do so, but it troubles me that historically they have chosen to focus 95% of their efforts on themselves.

We all know that DCI was surviving on extremely thin ice just over 10 years ago, and that regional circuits like DCM were supportive of the larger collective, while still maintaining and meeting the needs of the local non-touring corps. When DCI grew in strength once again, because of the cost of running top level corps, it once again became all about the "haves" and increasingly less about the "have nots". I think that's terrible in an institution that purports to serve youth. From my perspective, as I see DCI continue to grow in strength, while all other corps continue to weaken in structure and their very existence, it's harder and harder for me to swallow.

The DCI corps are experiencing record numbers in turnout for obvious reasons. First, there simply are not as many alternative corps for kids as in the past... thus the explosion of WGI, Competitive Marching Bands, Indoor Percussion, etc., and that's why I say the "corps activity" is not healthy, but the "marching activity" certainly is. Second, as the Marching band activity and DCI continue to merge, DCI clearly shines as the ultimate experience in marching... which it is. Pile on the marketing power of DCI, the monopolizing in manufacturing of musical equipment for the marching world, and the opportunity to work with the biggest names in the activity, is it any wonder why there would be record numbers turning out? How many kids out there really even know about DCA? Where is DCA's presence from a marketing standpoint? I'm a Midwest drum corps nut, and I rarely if ever see any promotional materials for DCA. Of course they exist, but they (like so many others before them) can't compete with the power of DCI. Please don't tell me you are not able to see this.

Finally... I am of course a supporter of all youth involved in any level of marching activity, because I know what the experience can do for them. I am especially supportive of Div. II-III organizations, because I know how few people they have in their corner, and I think they generally provide a more beneficial youth development experience for their members, simply because of lower student to staff ratios, etc. It's alot easier to create a supportive total family environment.

I generally do not spend my money on DCI sanctioned events, and I will not until DCI makes REAL efforts to contribute to the growth of the activity, not just give lip service and create bread crumb type policies that are almost meaningless to organizations that are actually doing corps for the purpose of serving kids. DCI needs to recognize and act on the fact that they have the power to expand this great activity by affording equal support to lower tier programs as they do their member corps. Even though I know this has never been the purpose or funtion of DCI, I also know that there is no legitimate reason why they can not take up the cause of CREATING drum & bugle corps at a minimal level (parade corps, mini corps, whatever), beyond giving "advise" to existing units. It's called outreach, and they do have the fincial ability to engage in it at some level, and put some of their record profits where their mouth is. The now defunct regional circuits used to champion this effort, but they are no more. DCI has actively assumed control of those regions, and they are now an undeniable monopoly with an agenda that does not include the most needy within the activity. I know DCI could do outreach gradually over time (5-10 years), in a strategic initiative that will not dramatically affect their current bottom line today, and/or they have aligned themselves with corporate powers that could aid in the effort. But such thoughts aren't even on the table. They're effectively playing out another plan that includes only their member corps... which I predict will continue to decline rapidly. Enough.

Thanks for your time my friend. It's good for me to vent from time to time, even though I know most of today's fans could never really understand. I'm really not as militant as I come off. I... like others just care about kids getting a real chance to experience drum corps as I did. Take care.

[DrillmanSop06]

Oh, if you do not like it just get out...

[ChicagoFan]

Oh, if you do not like it just get out...

The battle cry of disgruntled drum corps fans and Democrats everywhere.