Switching to brass

[ravedodger]

Good luck with auditions.

-Means

Way to be constructive. :)

[shrinkingclarinet1991]

This is probably a really stupid question, but how many octaves are low brass supposed to be able to play? Is it around 2? And from what note to what note (on average)? My lack of brass knowledge is showing.

[ravedodger]

As a decent player, you should have about two-and-a-half octaves, but it probably won't be necessary since you will probably feel more comfortable on lower part anyway.

From E below the staff (bass clef) to Eb above the staff would be pretty good--but better if you could get to high Bb.

If you're a treble clef reader, it would be written F# below the staff to F at the top of the staff and then on to high C.

These are just student ranges. Many better players can play well beyond what I've written here. Playing a chromatic scale to a high concert Bb and back down is typical honor band audition material, with which you are probably already familiar.

Edited July 29, 2007 by ravedodger

[no_itsnotadash]

I learned baritone 2 months before my audition. Never played anything instrument, didn't find out what forte meant till I went.... basically started from scratch.

If you put in time and effort you can do anything.

[Mean Guru]

Way to be constructive. :)

Appreciate your attempts to be constructive (honestly), but I doubt either of us can help much.

If the question from a new player is "I'm switching to brass, [insert some excuse for not practicing a brass instrument for 8 months], and I'm learning on my own... Any tips from anyone?" There is little we can offer. We have no idea what he or she may need work on. The student himself/herself has already ruled out the best possible (and perhaps, only realistic) advice: getting actual, non-internet instruction. Good luck, indeed.

If the question is "what are the chances I can make Bluecoats with 5 months of practice?" Again, I don't know of anyone that could possibly answer this. It will depend of course on how effectively this student practices, how good the other auditioners will be, natural talent, and a host of other factors.

I must respectfully disagree with the oft-given advice that it "depends on how badly you want it." I believe the outcome will turn more on whether the student does the proper things to prepare. I have found that many students often engage in strategies that are destructive to achieving their goals, despite perhaps "wanting it" a great deal. See the above example.

I dealt with questions like these in a more brusque manner in my FAQ (see sig):

I was first chair in the Northwest Beaver Creek County High School Honor Band of Honor when I was a Junior. Do you think I can make [insert corps name]?

MG: How the #### should I know? Will you be better than enough of the others auditioning? If you want a quick answer, then... no.

"Good luck,"

-Means

[ravedodger]

Appreciate your attempts to be constructive (honestly), but I doubt either of us can help much.

If the question from a new player is "I'm switching to brass, [insert some excuse for not practicing a brass instrument for 8 months], and I'm learning on my own... Any tips from anyone?" There is little we can offer. We have no idea what he or she may need work on. The student himself/herself has already ruled out the best possible (and perhaps, only realistic) advice: getting actual, non-internet instruction. Good luck, indeed.

If the question is "what are the chances I can make Bluecoats with 5 months of practice?" Again, I don't know of anyone that could possibly answer this. It will depend of course on how effectively this student practices, how good the other auditioners will be, natural talent, and a host of other factors.

I must respectfully disagree with the oft-given advice that it "depends on how badly you want it." I believe the outcome will turn more on whether the student does the proper things to prepare. I have found that many students often engage in strategies that are destructive to achieving their goals, despite perhaps "wanting it" a great deal. See the above example.

I dealt with questions like these in a more brusque manner in my FAQ (see sig):

"Good luck,"

-Means

I disagree. I have recently seen a number of members of top six corps who could barely play a note and hold their horns up at the beginning of the season. I have even seen people who never should have been given a chance succeed. They even finished the season (in much better form, obviously). It seems to me they wanted it bad enough.

The idea of "wanting it bad enough" implies that one does take action to make a dream a reality.

If you were to post your name and credentials I may attempt to understand your view a little better. At this point, I am led to believe you've never auditioned a single person, otherwise your view and tone would be completely different, in my opinion, of course.

For those who want to march drum corps, the offer is still open. I have already written out a few exercises that will more than prepare a person for a drum corps audition. It should be noted that it is very difficult to improve through reading instructions alone. You should have a trainer (your band director--or private instructor) coach you along. Of course, it will be on you to prove Mean Guru wrong, by taking action now and being relentless in the pursuit of what you want to accomplish.

[skluyuk]

Get Down Dave! You tell'em. lol

Whenever someone asks me if I think they can <whatever>, I ask them how bad they really want it. An individual with a strong desire to accomplish something will always find a way to get it done. But, there is a big difference between being able to 'make it' and being great. I say go for the latter. It's a lot more fun to play when you can crank!

[Mean Guru]

I disagree. I have recently seen a number of members of top six corps who could barely play a note and hold their horns up at the beginning of the season. I have even seen people who never should have been given a chance succeed. They even finished the season (in much better form, obviously). It seems to me they wanted it bad enough.

The idea of "wanting it bad enough" implies that one does take action to make a dream a reality.

If you were to post your name and credentials I may attempt to understand your view a little better. At this point, I am led to believe you've never auditioned a single person, otherwise your view and tone would be completely different, in my opinion, of course.

For those who want to march drum corps, the offer is still open. I have already written out a few exercises that will more than prepare a person for a drum corps audition. It should be noted that it is very difficult to improve through reading instructions alone. You should have a trainer (your band director--or private instructor) coach you along. Of course, it will be on you to prove Mean Guru wrong, by taking action now and being relentless in the pursuit of what you want to accomplish.

I agree the phrase "wanting it bad enough" implies that the one who wants will take action. I disagree that this always happens. I've seen many students who attest--probably genuinely--to wanting to be in Blue Devils, Cavaliers, or whoever, but don't do the things necessary to prepare. This may be because they simply don't know how to prepare, but I tend to believe now that they *must* know, because the process is obvious: get instruction of some kind, practice effectively, don't arrive completely out of shape, etc.

Instead, for these and many other students, I think there is simply a disconnect between wanting the goal (that is, being in the corps you've always admired) and a willingness to perform the tasks needed to accomplish that goal (long hours of practice, perhaps some injured pride from feedback you didn't want to hear, and so forth).

There are many other fine instructors who espouse the "wanting it bad enough" view, some whom help create terrific hornlines, and whom I greatly admire. Our disagreement on this particular issue does not induce us to question each other's merits as instructors (at least, as far as I know).

I have decided not to provide my name and credentials, except to say I have auditioned hundreds of horn players for drum corps. Perhaps I can aid your understanding in responding to any questions you may have. For that matter, guided instruction specifically for auditioning for drum corps is not something I do at all, so I'm willing to listen to anyone on this topic.

Your last paragraph is most interesting. Getting instruction and practicing effectively are precisely the things that I mentioned in my previous post. Getting actual instruction did not appear in your previous posts in this thread. Yet this paragraph flips things around, making it appear as though you support these methods and I do not. However, if I get the gist of it right, it seems we are largely in agreement. Again, I will stress that these so-called "solutions" should be obvious to any beginner.

As for my being wrong: it happens all the time.

-Means

[ravedodger]

Get Down Dave! You tell'em. lol

Whenever someone asks me if I think they can <whatever>, I ask them how bad they really want it. An individual with a strong desire to accomplish something will always find a way to get it done. But, there is a big difference between being able to 'make it' and being great. I say go for the latter. It's a lot more fun to play when you can crank!

Hey Matt! How was France? Have any french fries for me? :P

[ravedodger]

I agree the phrase "wanting it bad enough" implies that the one who wants will take action. I disagree that this always happens. I've seen many students who attest--probably genuinely--to wanting to be in Blue Devils, Cavaliers, or whoever, but don't do the things necessary to prepare. This may be because they simply don't know how to prepare, but I tend to believe now that they *must* know, because the process is obvious: get instruction of some kind, practice effectively, don't arrive completely out of shape, etc.

Instead, for these and many other students, I think there is simply a disconnect between wanting the goal (that is, being in the corps you've always admired) and a willingness to perform the tasks needed to accomplish that goal (long hours of practice, perhaps some injured pride from feedback you didn't want to hear, and so forth).

There are many other fine instructors who espouse the "wanting it bad enough" view, some whom help create terrific hornlines, and whom I greatly admire. Our disagreement on this particular issue does not induce us to question each other's merits as instructors (at least, as far as I know).

I have decided not to provide my name and credentials, except to say I have auditioned hundreds of horn players for drum corps. Perhaps I can aid your understanding in responding to any questions you may have. For that matter, guided instruction specifically for auditioning for drum corps is not something I do at all, so I'm willing to listen to anyone on this topic.

Your last paragraph is most interesting. Getting instruction and practicing effectively are precisely the things that I mentioned in my previous post. Getting actual instruction did not appear in your previous posts in this thread. Yet this paragraph flips things around, making it appear as though you support these methods and I do not. However, if I get the gist of it right, it seems we are largely in agreement. Again, I will stress that these so-called "solutions" should be obvious to any beginner.

As for my being wrong: it happens all the time.

-Means

We agree on method, though you are correct that I did not mention "actual instruction" in the first post. I did not intend to flip anything around. The only intention of the second post's last paragraph was to inspire those who want to succeed. Will everyone succeed? Of course not. On the other hand, I'm also hoping that these people with valid questions and sincere requests for advice read your posts gain some sort of inspiration.

Many people who want to march in drum corps are already qualified well enough to land a spot in the best drum corps. The problem isn't necessarily due to a lack of preparation. Many people feel that they just aren't good enough, so they decide to talk about auditioning and ask a lot of questions.

I remember watching my first show live and thinking "I can do this", but I didn't really think I was good enough. At the time, I also didn't have the support that I required. Later, while at junior college and never having private lessons, I met some vets of a corps who said I was welcome to come to a camp with them and they said I would get a spot pretty easily. I skipped a wind ensemble performance on a Friday evening to attend my first camp. Having no idea that I would be required to audition, I was completely unprepared and nervous when I was called in to play for an instructor. I was a wreck of course, I had no idea what I was doing there, but I made the lead soprano line.

One thing that I learned while marching is that one drum corps is not inherently better than others. Meaning each corps starts a season with members on about the same level. It's the staff that have the greatest influence on the corps placement in any given year.

Being an instructor, I am obligated to give people the tools to allow them to succeed. It is always up the individual to decide how, or if, they will those tools. This is where I think we differ. Hence, my retort for your comment "Good luck with auditions."

Drum corps auditions are similar to typical honor band auditions.

Most people will have the individual play a few simple scales, show tonguing speed, articulation, and flexibility. A prepared piece may or may not be required.