Madison Scouts 2007

[Tom Brace]

The real question is whether a corps that really puts the members and fans ahead of scores, judges and politics can survive in the current DCI. So far, it's not looking good.

OK...DID EVERYONE READ THIS? DOES EVERYONE GET THIS? One of the most profound thoughts ever regarding the Madison Scouts and others.

You are so spot on on this.

It is unfortunate that in both cases the Boards and Directors reached impasses and there was no room for compromise. But, that is frequently the case when working with passionate, creative and artistic people.

As far as DCI...a lot of the corps work the kids much harder today than even a decade ago. This striving for perfection, while noble, can also be an obsession. They are young people and sometimes an afternoon off...washing a bus...going to see another corps rehearse...going to see the sights...is exactly what a corps needs to get back in the groove. It's not always about PUSH PUSH PUSH.

And we get back to whether the shows are for the fans in green shirts, or for the remainder of the fans in the seats. And whether a corps can currently balance the two effectively.

Great post vferrara. You are spot on.

And this...from a fraud and troll like me. Doesn't mean as much does it?

[bawker]

The real question is whether a corps that really puts the members and fans ahead of scores, judges and politics can survive in the current DCI. So far, it's not looking good.

Let me follow up on this then, especially given that you (and others who have posted since) have some sort of insight into the Scouts: what, then, is the alternative for Madison in your personal estimation?

-Should there be an attempt to play the "game" again?

-Exhibition only?

-DCA?

I'm just throwing things out there...DCA is hardly more than DCI a few years behind, and 'exhibition-only' takes away what some kids thrive on. It's hard to figure out what to do.

I agree, though...it's going to be tough with a capital "T" to try to find the balance between the art that the green shirts and music "elite" like and what people who depend on Madison to blow the stadium to hell want.

There has to be room for both, though...somehow.

[Scerpella]

Frankly, I don't understand all this negativeness from supposed 'brothers' towards other 'brothers'. I'd quite frankly like to also know where all these alumni were from 03-06 - I was present most of the time and certainly did not get to see or meet many - and I sure saw a lot of new faces (old past members) wearing their green Madison jackets in Rockford. Believe me, we would have loved to have more alumni participation in all areas - I personally enjoyed learning all I could about Madison before I got to be on the inside.

I dont understand which negativity youre referring to unless you believe that brotherhood means having to love all the changes made in Madison after the departure of Scott Stewart, which as long as were talking about is whose era most of those alumni you didnt see in your time from 03-06 are from. Having been involved in an effort to get an alumni corps going 18 months before Randy Ferrie got involved I can tell you personally that MDBCA wasnt particularly interested in this kind of alumni support, nor were they particularly ecstatic when Randys group got going. As everyone involved can agree (I would think) the MSARP turned out to be successful beyond everyones wildest expectations and resulted in many brothers being brought back into the fold, not to mention thousands of dollars of direct contributions flowing into the Madison bank accounts, more than $10,000 of that in MSARP members Alumni dues alone.

So if I am to infer correctly from what youve written that Alumni were lacking in our support of the corps, I would say perhaps you dont understand that the Alumni Association was not strong for many years (even during the Stewart years) but that MSARP IMO made up in a big way for much of that. All we can do is hope that it continues to grow stronger.

That having been said the fact that after he's gone I say I wasnt a huge fan of the way Salas ran Scouts constitutes to you being negative towards "my brother" is unfortunate but is your misperception. All of us including Scott are brothers, but in the end decisions are made which all I hope would agree are by people who possess the best intentions though not always the best execution. Sal Salas' "arc" seemed to be on the wane and money appeared to be rushing out like a faucet against this backdrop of lowering placements. In the real world, this usually leads to management change so its not really a surprise that Sal was not renewed. His notable successes however are history and cant be taken away from him.

For the record, I liked 06's uniform but it made all the guys look tiny for some reason..

[ScoutSpinner03]

Looked like a trend to me. Explain how the corps in 2003 was able to rebound even though they were probably very weak in returning members and probably very young.

2003 was my rookie year at Madison.

There were actually quite a few vets in the corps as a whole, but only about 8 in guard itself. Those vets stood by the staff, what they believed in and were trying to do with the corps that season. All of us rookies knew that there were a lot of expectations from us. We were the new Scouts. It was our responsibilty to step up and file in with the way the vets were acting. They were hungry to get back into finals and we wanted to know what it felt like to be under the lights. We were lucky that in 2003, there were still older staff there, enabling an easier means of transition and rebounding for the 2003 Scouts.

The staff that they brought in were more than capable of enhancing the performance and design aspect of Madison. The staff pushed us to great lengths that season and gave us an outstanding show, my personal favorite of the 4years I marched.

As for the 2007 Scouts.

The guys are enjoying themselves and enjoy what the staff has given them to do. In talking with my friends that are still there, the vets that are there are similar to the 2003 vets. They trying to lead a VERY young corps and show them what it is to be a Scout, from all aspects. There is A LOT of adjusting going on. By that I mean, getting used to a completely new teaching and design style, which honestly may take more than one season. Personally, it wasnt until the 2005 season that I fully was able to understand the way in which the guard staff taught/choreographed. In 2006, when a new guard designer/choreographer and drill designer came aboard, we spent the majority of that season trying to adjust to a new style, making 06 a learning experience again.

The 2007 season, from my viewpoint, will be one of learning and understanding. The staff is MORE than capable, but with a very young corps and the Scouts going a new direction, it might take more than one season before the Scouts that fans are expecting to see returns to the field.

Edited June 25, 2007 by ScoutSpinner03

[madscout96]

The real question is whether a corps that really puts the members and fans ahead of scores, judges and politics can survive in the current DCI. So far, it's not looking good.

I don't think that's the question that needs to be asked. I think the question that needs to be asked is, Can a corps that operates on a budget similar to the one the Scouts were on during the Stewart era survive in the current DCI.

So Salas spent alot more money that Stewart did. Why? To "put his stamp on the organization"? I doubt it. Several of the changes that Salas made when he came in might very well have been to put his stamp on the Scouts, but I doubt that he spent more money for the sake of spending more money. Scott scrimped and saved and then put the money in the places it was needed most. He didn't see the need for a "contemporary" cook truck, because he kept good relations with housing sites and was able to use their kitchens or home-ec rooms to cook for the corps, and the corps just had a truck that hauled food supplies, but they could still make feed the corps without a kitchen for those times when one wasn't available. He also hired mostly alumni to teach the corps. I'm willing to bet that he did that not just so that tradition could be passed on and the corps identity maintained, but also to keep the amount of money spent on instruction relatively low. All Alumni are expected to give something back to the corps that gave so much to them. Teaching the corps for a little less than another corps might pay you is a way of giving back to the corps. But the minute you bring in big name instructors or designers, well they have a price, no matter how good of a job they do.

I think that a corps that puts members and fans ahead of all that other stuff can not only survive in the current DCI, but thrive as well. But I don't think that's the issue.

[masterfitter]

I dont understand which negativity youre referring to unless you believe that brotherhood means having to love all the changes made in Madison after the departure of Scott Stewart, which as long as were talking about is whose era most of those alumni you didnt see in your time from 03-06 are from. Having been involved in an effort to get an alumni corps going 18 months before Randy Ferrie got involved I can tell you personally that MDBCA wasnt particularly interested in this kind of alumni support, nor were they particularly ecstatic when Randys group got going. As everyone involved can agree (I would think) the MSARP turned out to be successful beyond everyones wildest expectations and resulted in many brothers being brought back into the fold, not to mention thousands of dollars of direct contributions flowing into the Madison bank accounts, more than $10,000 of that in MSARP members Alumni dues alone.

So if I am to infer correctly from what youve written that Alumni were lacking in our support of the corps, I would say perhaps you dont understand that the Alumni Association was not strong for many years (even during the Stewart years) but that MSARP IMO made up in a big way for much of that. All we can do is hope that it continues to grow stronger.

That having been said the fact that after he's gone I say I wasnt a huge fan of the way Salas ran Scouts constitutes to you being negative towards "my brother" is unfortunate but is your misperception. All of us including Scott are brothers, but in the end decisions are made which all I hope would agree are by people who possess the best intentions though not always the best execution. Sal Salas' "arc" seemed to be on the wane and money appeared to be rushing out like a faucet against this backdrop of lowering placements. In the real world, this usually leads to management change so its not really a surprise that Sal was not renewed. His notable successes however are history and cant be taken away from him.

For the record, I liked 06's uniform but it made all the guys look tiny for some reason..

You know, I realize there is a lot of misinformation about where the $$ was 'going' at Madison - suffice it to say it seems the 'Scott Stewart' alumni believe Sal was spending like a drunken sailor. Facts I know say the $$ was going to pay off debts before Sal even came on board. This can be argued until he** freezes over, I am sure, but what good will it do? I hear the phrase that the alumni are drinking the koolaid - all I know is Sal and company would never have turned away alumni help or contributions. Now, whether alumni would be satisfied with the kind of help was welcome is unknown to me. I know the corps held the same kinds of fundraisers as during Scott's tenure that required the guys to attempt to secure donations from alumni.

I also know there were a lot of angry alumni out there. In Boston, in 05 (where the corps placed 6th after being 5th or higher all year long except for Finals night), I was accosted by an alumni that was being quite rude about his comments and felt the corps did not need such things as a food truck and wanted to know why 'we were ruining his corps'. Hmmm...2002 placed 14, 2005 6th or better all year???

Sal voted Director of the Year.

Apparently there are many alumni that viewed things differently than the drum corps community as a whole.

All winter long when the alumni corps would have rehearsals nearby during the same weekends as the Scouts, I kept thinking we would see a large group of alumni during the late ensemble rehearsals on Sunday, cheering the guys on. Nope, never happened.

Now, please back to Lisle reviews. I personally think PR has a fantastic show this year. Someone please continue to talk it up!

[vferrera]

Let me follow up on this then, especially given that you (and others who have posted since) have some sort of insight into the Scouts: what, then, is the alternative for Madison in your personal estimation?

-Should there be an attempt to play the "game" again?

-Exhibition only?

-DCA?

I'm just throwing things out there...DCA is hardly more than DCI a few years behind, and 'exhibition-only' takes away what some kids thrive on. It's hard to figure out what to do.

I agree, though...it's going to be tough with a capital "T" to try to find the balance between the art that the green shirts and music "elite" like and what people who depend on Madison to blow the stadium to hell want.

There has to be room for both, though...somehow.

All of these have been discussed, as well as others. Like, what if DCM broke away from DCI? Of course, as soon as that idea got out, DCI took a wrecking ball to DCM.

The only viable alternative for Madison is to stick with DCI and try to change things from within.

[oldbandguy]

Can a corps that operates on a budget similar to the one the Scouts were on during the Stewart era survive in the current DCI.

Scott scrimped and saved and then put the money in the places it was needed most. He didn't see the need for a "contemporary" cook truck, because he kept good relations with housing sites and was able to use their kitchens or home-ec rooms to cook for the corps.

This could not happen today. The corps do not arrange their own housing from show to show and very few, if any, schools would allow corps to use their kitchens and home ec rooms. In fact, many high schools do not

even offer home ec anymore. Those classes have been taken over by vocational schools.

The decision for the Scouts to invest in a REAL food truck was long over due.

[Liam]

This could not happen today. The corps do not arrange their own housing from show to show and very few, if any, schools would allow corps to use their kitchens and home ec rooms. In fact, many high schools do not

even offer home ec anymore. Those classes have been taken over by vocational schools.

The decision for the Scouts to invest in a REAL food truck was long over due.

So not the point ... the point was that maybe there are ways to save money by finding non-traditional solutions to current money-costing issues. The food truck thing was just an example.

[Jim Anello]

I'd quite frankly like to also know where all these alumni were from 03-06 - I was present most of the time and certainly did not get to see or meet many - and I sure saw a lot of new faces (old past members) wearing their green Madison jackets in Rockford.

This came up in another thread some months back, and I let it slide. But, since it has come up again, maybe it's time I say this. It's not like I was taking attendance, but I never saw many alumni at rehearsals I've attended - even during the latter years of Scott Stewart's tenure. This year has been much different. I'm glad the current administration has taken advantage of the enthusiasm started by the MSARP and reached out to the alumni. As a volunteer for the Scouts, I hope to continue seeing them around.